WTF is the 'female patriarchy'?

Prisoner safety is low on my list.

And there it is. Some women matter, and some women don't. Interesting take Onnabugeisha

Let's just hope you or your daughters don't accidently end up being the wrong kind of woman after you've given all their rights away to men.

It’s about enforcing boundaries. If women’s prisons can’t be kept as single sex spaces nowhere can. It is an easily understandable example of the huge risk allowing males to self identify into women’s spaces creates. It is one of those situations where you can say starkly - do you think it is acceptable to force women to share a space with a convicted sex offender just because that fully intact male says they are female?
If people can’t see the barbarism of locking up women with male sex offenders they are hardly going to be defending other safe spaces.

Rather than fetishising innocence and making moral judgements about who deserves protection, maybe you could consider that all women and girls deserve consideration. Even if their behaviour has been terrible.

The issue of prisons matters because the state has taken control over every aspect of these women’s lives. It is, therefore, the state’s responsibility to ensure they are safe from harm. Whatever they have done to find themselves in prison.

This is absolutely fundamental
stuff. If we decide that female prisoners in an environment the state is in control
of don’t matter, then there’s no chance of protecting women and girls in the community.

After all, we are making judgement about whether they are worth caring about the key criterion in whether we will intervene or even care.

So those students you think are more important. Well, you know, some of them might have been (gasp!) drinking or taken drugs. Or they might have had casual sex in the past (clutches pearls). Or any number of things that means we can decide that their well-being doesn’t serve the greater good.

Yeah but who gives a fuck about the tens of thousands of female Uni students being raped by male Uni students every year, am I right? Can’t talk about that until we make sure 1-3 female prisoners a year are completely wrapped in cotton wool and safe from all men in their own man free bubble. Some of these women are murderers and child abusers.

Can't talk about that? Maybe you don't but I've seen plenty of talk about it here (Brock Turner and the Everyone's Invited being two such examples) and elsewhere. You want to talk about it more? Start a thread.

Some of us campaign for vulnerable women to be safe from state sanctioned punative rape and for other campaigns to keep women safe.

Exactly. You simply don’t think these women are deserving of your care.

Rapes of female prisoners by male prisoners is a low number but significant in it happening because it shows how the patriarchy works: womens suffering are rated lower than male feelings and rapes of women is a small price to pay for making male prisoners lives better, according to the people in charge

Yeah but who gives a fuck about the tens of thousands of female Uni students being raped by male Uni students every year, am I right? Can’t talk about that until we make sure 1-3 female prisoners a year are completely wrapped in cotton wool and safe from all men in their own man free bubble. Some of these women are murderers and child abusers.

But yeah, it’s vitally important this is what we address first. Personally, I think issues should be addressed in terms of what serves the greater good. What benefits the most women and girls. Prisoner safety is low on my list. Girls are high on my list because they’re innocent children.

It's not just a few women prisoners who are locked up with men in his majesties name with no where to run or hide.

It's the women and girls in changing rooms, hospitals, toilets etc.
Disabled and elderly needing care..

Who exactly are we fighting for when trying to eradicate VAWG if WG included men? How on earth can it ever work?

It always makes me feel slightly sick when I see the heinous argument of 'well, it's only a few women raped in prison by convicted male sex offenders - who gives a shit?'.

Some of the most vulnerable women (80% of female Scottish prisoners have suffered head trauma, mostly due to domestic violence) incarcerated with convicted male sex offenders, on the mere say so of the convicted male sex offenders (and who in Scotland anyway many of whom are discovering that their gender identity after being arrested and change back to their original identity the moment they leave prison) with no way out. Aided and abetted by the prison service. It is state sanctioned punative rape. To spare the feelings of convicted male sex offenders. (And I've said convicted male sex offenders many times, because I don't think it can be said enough, frankly).

Women in prison are a particularly vulnerable group. They are detained in state institutions with no control over their environment or who they must share it with.

Any rape or violence they experience because the state has decided to house male offenders with them is a huge issue. The state’s responsibility to the people it incarcerates is enormous.

If amazes me that anyone with dismiss this as unimportant because it’s a small number of women. And out in civil society VAWG is widespread.

I guess though, they’re just the wrong kind of women. They don’t matter. Because prison just isn’t something that would happen to nice female patriarchs.

Cold hard fact.
It makes no sense to me to derail a discussion on what can we do for millions of women and girls by fighting over identity politics in the name of making a few women prisoners 100% safe when none of us are safe. These prisoners are already far safer than we are!

No it’s really not. It’s not making a decision to allow male sex offenders in womens prisons, it’s saying, let’s set this issue to one side for now and priories the other 99.99% of women and 100% of girls.

There’s no “hierarchy” of women by deciding to focus the vast majority of women and girls before focusing on a select subset of women. It is merely a decision to do something that will benefit millions of women and girls ahead of doing something that will benefit only a few women.

This is thick on many levels.

Its "Matriarchy" for a start off.

And we live in a patriarchal society that's just the way it's evolved. Attempts to reverse this have proved largely ineffective funnily enough. Its almost like men don't want this to change.

Again, how much of all the VAWGs does this account for? There’s what 1-3 assaults on a female prisoner a year tops?

This is a brilliant example of 'female patriarchy', female people working within the boundaries of the patriarchy to try (and fail) to improve the lives of women. Fail as it also puts a hierarchy in place of the women you decide to help and women's suffering you just accept and shrug off. I understand you are looking at the total numbers of victims, but you are (deliberately?) missing the bigger picture here.

Rapes of female prisoners by male prisoners is a low number but significant in it happening because it shows how the patriarchy works: womens suffering are rated lower than male feelings and rapes of women is a small price to pay for making male prisoners lives better, according to the people in charge. It is the way patriarchy works: it centers men, it empowers men. It puts women below men every single time. If you don't fight the system that finds it ok to lock up male rapists in the same prisons as female prisoners, then you will never really improve womens lives, you will just expend all your energy trying to minimise the suffering instead of eradicating it.

*foremost, not fire lost don’t know what happened there.

Women and girls not in prison come into contact with far more male sex offenders just going about their daily life than any woman in a prison does. Yet you want to focus on keeping prison 100% male sex offender free? Why do female criminals deserve such privilege to be protected first and fire lost?

The rest of us don’t live in a male sex offender free environment. We have to put up with male sex offenders leering at us while buying nappies in Boots, following us home from a night out, rubbing up against us on the Tube, driving their cars slowly while watching our daughters in their uniform skirts walking to school and openly wanking and so on.

Why are the few female criminals being put to the front of the queue? Prison already is safer from men than life outside for every other woman and girl.

Again, how much of all the VAWGs does this account for? There’s what 1-3 assaults on a female prisoner a year tops?

Meanwhile literally MILLIONS of women outside prison are assaulted each year.
So that’s what less than one thousandth of a per cent?

Do we really need to hyper-focus on a few women in prison when the real elephant in the room is what’s happening to the rest of us on trains, in pubs, at work, on the streets, and at home?

And that’s not even looking at violence against girls.

Yes but all this adds up to male sex offenders in women’s prisons.

Oh, I forgot… validating (male) identities is so much more important than tackling actual VAWG, or in fact actual violence against TW😡

But, by leaving the whole definition of a woman and the transwomen issues to one side, we can discuss VAWGs. To insist that the identity of what is a woman must be settled or be a part of a discussion on VAWGs, isn’t that also putting an identity spat ahead of discussing actual violence?

For example, does it really matter whether less than 1% of rape victims are seen as women or men? Do we absolutely need to agree on this before discussing the remaining 99%+ victims of rape? Or murder? Or domestic violence?

I don’t think we do. I think it was right to say, leave the identity question at the door. Let’s just focus on VAWGs.

So, if you’re intending to discuss actual women’s actual experience of men’s violence against actual women then that’s not ok, because it doesn’t include violence experienced by males who identify as women.

Obviously this is unbelievable in the context of this organisation. It also does no favours to TW. Violence against TW is wrong and need to be addressed. However, the context and motivations of violence against them are completely different. This is a male issue, women cannot solve it for them. It makes no sense to try to lump the two together (as ever!). If they want to set up an equivalent charity & hold an equivalent event, why can’t they just go ahead and do that?

Oh, I forgot… validating (male) identities is so much more important than tackling actual VAWG, or in fact actual violence against TW😡