Most women want women-only, female-sex only, facilities. Please tell me why women do not...

So are we supposed to demand to see a males penis to determine if they can access womens spaces? That’ll go well. So why exactly do you believe all spaces should be mixed sex?

Full psychological assessments? She was fully transitioned, I'm willing to bet anyone 'faking' being trans isn't going to chop off their penis. I never had a single issue with her at all and we shared a room for 6 months. However I did work with a trans male that was crude, vulgar and made me feel threatened but by your logic he was female so can access female spaces, right?

I know several men who have gone through hell: abuse, mental health, death of a child (often considered the worst hell on earth if we choose to rank), cancer...yet none of them would feel the need to transgress boundaries of women nor feel the need to ignore women who said, "I'm not comfortable with this."

What makes transwomen different from the examples of men who have gone through hell of another sort?

Sorry to ask again.

Do you or don’t you believe that males should access female single sex spaces?

So again, how do we tell the difference? What are the absolute signs a male is a ‘ genuine transwoman’?

I shared a room with a trans woman and never felt uncomfortable or threatened, so I have no issues. She went through huge amount of trauma and abuse to transition in the military and I just don't understand the hatred directed or expectation that all trans are pretending to access female spaces.

Do you think transitioned males should have access to female single sex spaces?

Not quite sure what it is you are trying to say on this thread.

By the way, why do you assume posters have not ‘met a trans people’? How prejudiced are you to make this statement?

So at @endlesscraziness maybe you can solve the problem, how do we tell the difference between a male with a trans identity who is a ‘genuine transwoman’ and a male pretending to have a trans identity to access womens spaces?

I've shared a room with a trans woman. She went through hell to transition in the military years ago. Whilst there could be a few men that try their luck with the likes of prisons, how can you deny genuine trans people? What about female to male trans, do you deny those too? I don't understand the twisted hatred to all trans on this site when most of you have never probably met a trans person. Yes you shouldn't just be able to say you're trans when you fancy, there should be checks and balances and thorough assessments, but completely denying genuine trans people is fucked up

Young women impacted by male bodied women on thei single sex sports teams (or rather in our direct experience on the opposing team) are not fine with it. Tbh neither are they fine with female bodied opponents who are taking testosterone to transition remaining on that women's team which they are expected to play against without mentioning that the emperor is wearing two sets of unfairly advantaged new clothes simultaneously.

Otoh ... I think the question that should be asked to those who don't think there is any problem with allowing males into women's spaces is why they evidently don't give a shit about the women for whom it does matter.

It might not worry me, but that's irrelevant - I know it does matter to other women. Sure, many students don't mind mixed sex accommodation - but some young women will self exclude, or be prevented from attending uni if they can't get all-female accommodation. Rape victims, prisoners, sports... how the heck can any women just dismiss the needs of other women?

Some rich, privileged young women are so narrow minded and selfish that they don't give a fuck about other women who are forced to share a homeless shelter, prison cell or rape crisis group with a man.

Or anything about the lives of women from some traditional religions who need women’s safe spaces ( like toilets and changing rooms ) to be allowed to exist in public life . Or women who need female health care staff to acesss health care.

Its all about then and their stuck up mates sharing a bunk on their Duke of Edinburgh expedition or sodding gap year trip.

If my teenage / adult children were so stupid I would be taking the time to educate them and ask them to consider their own privilege . Id not be bragging about their stupidly and selfishness and my inadequate parenting on MN.

There are lots of women online and elsewhere saying that they don't mind sharing all of their spaces and giving single-sex women's spaces away on behalf of all women, including the ones who actually do care about losing single-sex spaces.

These opinions are amplified by activists for obvious reasons, and then over recent years, women have been vilified (first by activists, and then by other women who feel compelled to 'be kind' at all costs) for uttering anything other than the socially-acceptable "biology doesn't matter", to the point where social groups, corporates, the public sector, etc are all self-policing pupils, employees and service-users to parrot the same, with very real consequences for stepping out of line.

The generally accepted view nowadays seems to be that anyone who wants retain actual single-sex spaces is a horrid bigot, and so even if the majority of people do think that biology matters and single-sex spaces are necessary in some contexts, most have learned the hard way that it's not ok to say this publicly if you want to keep your career, friends, platform, etc.

I think the question that should be asked to those who don't think there is any problem with allowing trans identified men into women's spaces is if they would be happy if we got rid of all sex segregated spaces.
So no more women's and men's toilets or changing rooms just a single mixed sex toilet or changing room. No right to ever request a same sex person for intimate medical examinations or strip searches.
Would those people really be happy with their teenage daughters getting undressed in a room full of teenage boys for swimming or sharing bedrooms with boys or male teachers on school trips

I can understand their naïveté. Not so much, yours.

This.

Had a very similar experience to powershower when slept in the same bed as a male acquaintance when all staying over after a party at uni. He felt me up, and I pretended to be asleep.

Why are women's voices and women's preferences for single-sex women's spaces, and for child safeguarding, so fiercely opposed?

Partly toilets are dismissed through lack of understanding of what happens in female toilets.

From an early age my mum would have us use public toilets to get changed in when we were going somewhere after school due to time constraints. A mum dealing with three kids... well we didn't all fit in a cubicle so we were changed in the main area where there would only ever be women.

After periods started, I used to often be rinsing out clothing bits. After breastfeeding or just baby sick, I was often rinsing out clothing bits and using the dryer. Or exploding breastmilk saturating my tops.

I have had friends miscarry in public toilets and needed assistance from other women. NOT MALES.

I have spent many months with a pram laden with shopping because I walked everywhere jammed in the door while I entertained a baby who was prone to screaming, while dealing with flooding periods.

I have had to do similar with my own elderly mother when there was no disabled loo and had to clean her up.

Toilets are not used for 'just peeing' as so many males who are heavily invested in gaining access to those toilets tell us. They want those toilets to be only about 'peeing' so they can convince people who have never had to use a toilet for anything else that women are hateful.

God, cake, that sounds horrible. I'm so sorry you went through that.

The toilet issue is thrown out there to make women look petty and stupid and like we're only saying we need these spaces to hurt males who have decided they can't use the toilets designated for their sex.

But here's the thing: yes we had a mixed sex toilet at home, but I didn't have safe or easy access to it, my father made sure of that. It was his bathroom and we used it on his terms. He regularly left the toilet unflushed and dirty, spat phlegm in the sink and left it, would decide 5 minutes after you got in the bath that he needed the toilet and would then lock himself in there until the water went cold (and if you got dressed he would hit the roof, which meant shivering in a towel until he decided to come out and then getting into the cold water). Oh, and he used to wipe his armpits with the hand towel and then fold it neatly and put it back on the rail so you'd go to dry your face on it and it would stink.

Public toilets were one of the few places I knew there wouldn't be any men and I could use them on my terms. It's getting a bit difficult now. Urinary leash, anyone?

@Thelnebriati often simply to be able to tell women they are being unreasonable, hysterical, man hating, etc.

A bit like the "You all have a mixed sex loo in your home" one. Utterly nonsensical but makes 'them' feel they have a point to make!

My partner has quite a big family and over the past few years 4 (3 female and 1 male) have gone to Uni. Each spent their first year in mixed sex accommodation (student flats) which I think is the norm. However with the exception of 1 who moved in with her boyfriend all the others then moved in to shared student houses with people of their own sex for the remainder of their course. I don’t think it’s as simple as saying it’s a generational thing.

I can understand their naïveté. Not so much, yours.

I’m nearly 50 and have (touch wood) never experienced male violence first hand. I was raised, and continue to be surrounded, by lovely men.

But I’ve lived in the world, have a working set of eyes, a brain in my head, and of course, have experienced countless examples of low level assaults and threats from men.

Enough to know that I have been very, very lucky, that the threat is real, and that if I were ever to find myself in the presence of a man who didn’t have good intentions, there’s pretty much nothing I could do about it.

This is why women want, and deserve, single sex spaces, and by single sex spaces, I absolutely include sport.

Lanadelgray has explained my thoughts much more clearly than I did! In the groping incident, I didn't want to cause a scene (thanks, socialisation!) but at first pretended to be asleep. I was silently horrified when that only encouraged him (oh youthful naïveté) so, not wanting to cause a scene, fake- yawned, rolled over in my "sleep" and settled down fast asleep (actually tense as a board and hyper alert) jammed up against the far wall of the living room floorful of sleeping bodies with my arms clamped tight across my boobs. He gave up and fell asleep. I lay awake for half an hour to be sure, then fell asleep. At least I had the security of knowing that if he didn't stop I could elbow him in the ribs, sit up and roar "Get your filthy hands off me" and my classmates would wake up and agree that sexual assault is not OK. But during the half hour "insurance" being tired but awake, I did ponder that the world is indeed, unequal for the sexes as he snored and farted peacefully less than 18 inches away, not a care in the world.

When I was younger I was not at all afraid of any man.
I remember being shocked when the university women's officer refused to work the overnight helpline with a man.
I just couldn't understand her.

Then I did a shift with her and she explained it was because she'd experienced violence at the hands of the man who should have protected her the most.

And as I grew older and wiser I'm very much in favour of single sex spaces where women are vulnerable.
It strikes me as being incredibly naive to imagine a world where all the men have good intentions.

I love men socially and think almost all situations are better mixed. I think toilets confuse the issue slightly. Many women just think it's all about toilets, when it's in fact about changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards.
Would they be happy being naked in front of a male stranger? Some women aren't bothered apparently. Most would be though. Because we know there could be a very real threat there.

Teens and students luxuriate in being in reasonably large social groups of mostly a similar age so there is a group mentality that polices behaviour and rejects the ‘creeps’ or shares information about dodgy behaviour of whatever kind.
They find it harder to conceive not being able to read people or codes that they haven’t experienced. Somehow they believe they can negotiate every situation and that the group will always exist to hold them in difficult situations.

Being older brings more experience and more atomised groups or situations where you are alone and vulnerable - working with people not the same age, having medical tests being hospitalised etc. I would guess that just one ‘off’ encounter is enough to awake fears that your mother told you about and the chance of that happening increases with age as does friends relating their experiences.