Thread to discuss the reality of parts of the UK absorbing large numbers of men from other cultures

It certainly seems that way.

Surely she would have been taken to a rape suite? From what I can recall she was held down at points, surely there would have been bruising? To suggest she made it up is a disgrace and will prevent more young girls and women coming forward if they are attacked by anyone, not just migrants. I know we have a terrible conviction rate though for SA, just look at what's been covered up/ignored within the Met and other forces until now.

I hadn't heard anything about this until now. Thanks for raising the issue.

Is this going to be another Rotherham/Rochdale/Telford-style cover up, where we don't pursue justice for little girls being raped and assaulted in case we offend twitter and get called Islamophobes? Sounds that way.

I am sorry but if you cannot be around girls without raping them unless they are fully covered, you should not be attending school. I don’t care about your possibly traumatic background. Rape is not ok, sexual harassment of girls is not ok.

I saw something in the press and on twitter.

Now, I'm going to write what was said in those discussions so want to give an advanced Trigger warning for SA so if that's likely to upset someone, please use caution.

OK.

So what was written on Twitter and put in the press (and has now disappeared so make of that what you will) was that a 15 year old girl at the school was raped on school premises. According to what was reported, and written on Twitter, one boy raped her, whilst 3 others acted as "look out" and encouraged him. They were allegedly under the care of Kent County Council (KCC) care services after arriving as unaccompanied and undocumented minors on a boat around the same time to Dover. There were concerns that perhaps they are not minors as this has previously happened but this was being denied by KCC. School had refused to comment as it was an ongoing investigation, as had the police and the immigration services.

That was the last I saw of it then nothing because I expected it to blow up across the media and had said to DH how worried this made me as our school is expected to be asked to take in children from a local hotel which is now being used by immigrants who have entered the country this way as a way of filtering them from London to other areas of the South and South East. My DD is 16 soon so obviously I was horrified.

Posting on this thread to ask if anyone knows what’s going on at Astor College Dover? Some girls have been suspended for protesting against sexual assault at school after they were told to adjust their uniforms to take account of Afghan boys at school. A boy was arrested for rape and eventually released without charge on the basis that there is no evidence that a crime occurred. The girls are still very unhappy. It seems to be catnip to far right outlets and GB news are linking it to the small boats issue, but the girls voices seem to be being ignored by everyone else. Does anyone have any more information?

@Xenia i was thinking about what you are saying about the beliefs about women being 100 years old.

If you had a time machine and brought busloads of men from the year 1911 and dropped them off in large groups around the UK, there would be huge efforts to bring them up to speed with women’s rights. They would be mocked as backwards dinosaurs when they freaked out at a woman’s short skirt, or whatever.

That, sort of, is what has happened, men with ‘1911’ expectations of women are placed in larger groups in the UK, except they aren’t being mocked.

I am totally with you. The process can start to feel violating BeastlySlumber. Having to provide a window into your most private moments, in order to justify your need for privacy.

Perhaps though, to soften my earlier point, some women would rather play the ‘maidenly modesty’ card using the example of a couple of errant hairs from a hijab, than have to experience the violation of talking about their miscarriages, heavy periods, IBS, panic attacks, etc.

There are some prurient bastards who just enjoy our discomfort and pretend to not know why women need privacy, just to try to get us to talk about it.

(It's totally off topic, sorry! The thread has meandered a lot!)

I know TI has left the thread but I'm quoting so pp know what I'm responding to.

It pisses me off to have to justify the demand for single sex spaces with a whole list of reasons. I feel like it should be enough to say "I need single sex spaces" and I don't think I should have to explain why.

There is something that sticks in my craw about having to justify my wish for single sex spaces by describing how I might have a heavy period to deal with, or have to get partially undressed for some reason. The fact is that I don't want men in a space that should be women only. The reasons are nobody else's business. End of.

Men don't have to explain why they don't want women in their spaces. At least, they haven't had to as far as I know.

Maybe it's not enough to just say we need single sex spaces. Maybe we do need to spell it all out, I don't know. I know I've made those lists before. But maybe I'll stop now. The information's out there for those who want to know.

Yes, it’s true. I think the issue of women wearing trousers in the early C20th was being able to see the shape of the woman’s crotch, and that has returned to us a century later.

A lot of the attitudes of some newcomers to the UK are what women fought against from 1850 to 1920 if not earlier. All those Victorian women in very long skirts who could not cycle due to clothing so it is a bit irritating when the sheer weight of numbers of newcomers with the attitudes we fought 100 years of battles to overcome are brought back en masse. One man per village is no problem at all. Vast numbers is the issue particularly when all young men concentrated in one area particularly when not with wives and families

Ah well, thanks BeastlySlumber.

I know, don't worry about it Tea. For whatever reason, theinebriati seems a bit annoyed and not really engaging with what people are actually saying.

I know TheInebriati has left the thread, but to set the record straight, I haven’t actually called anyone out. I have been speaking in generalisations.

In the old days feminists were proud to be angry about patriarchy. How times have changed.

I do feel anger when the feminist arguments immediately cede ground. For example, saying “I believe in trans rights” before putting forward a feminist argument.
‘Trans rights’ - what exactly are they? Surely it means the right of males to enter women’s spaces because they call themselves ‘trans’. So you cannot move forward to then argue the case for single sex spaces after you first conceded that you believe males are entitled to enter them.
The modesty argument is another.

Yes I can see that you are angry. You are happy to call out other women for posting in ways you don't approve of, but don't seem to be familiar with threads on this board or want a discussion around the issues, so I'm out.

I wonder if you are cruising for a scrap @Thelnebriati.

I am sure you are aware that I am not pissed off about anyone using too many words.

Ditto, that I am not talking about changing policy based on feelings alone.

Or that my anger at the injustice of women’s position in a patriarchal society, and the lengths we need to go to, just to be heard, is in fact anger at women.

Are you wilfully getting the wrong end of the stick here? I can’t tell.

It is really frustrating that our words and thoughts and feelings alone do not have weight.
But its right that feelings shouldn't change policy in the face of facts. Its how we end up with situations like self ID.

Getting angry at women who use too many words because you are frustrated sounds like displacement.

I know it isn’t very productive to feel pissed off about it, but sometimes I find that recognising something I’d been going along with actually conflicts with what I believe, does start off by pissing me off. It can be the emotion accompanying illumination.

And I have frequently seethed along the lines of “why are we even bothering to explain this at all?”

It is really frustrating that our words and thoughts and feelings alone do not have weight. It’s like the way so many victims of horror have to repeatedly live through their ordeal in order to provide testimonies to support feminist arguments. Otherwise it’s “that never happens” or whataboutery. It’s infuriating.

Yes I get it. I agree. The reason I quibbled over the word gotcha is that it is definitely part gotcha, part human shield, as you said, and also part submissive capitulation to win over misogynists.

why are we even bothering to explain this at all?

Because consciousness raising is a fundamental principle of feminism. We share information.

Sorry I just wrote my post and saw that you’d been saying the same sorts of things.

I think a much stronger inclusion argument, is that “women from some religious minorities will not be able to access services at all, if there is no single sex provision”.

Needing a private place to adjust a hijab - that is a bit over-emphasised, and I mistrust the reasons for the over-emphasis by feminists.

When I originally spoke, about feeling pissed off whilst reflecting upon the patriarchal woman-policing of women’s tempting, sexy hair, being emphasised as a justification for single sex spaces, upthread, I was specifically thinking about the UK but broadly, beyond the thread itself.