Transman wants to join lesbian group...

I would let her join.

She's a woman who is same sex attracted, however she presents herself.

NOBODY has to accept that a man into their group, whether they are a transperson or just a regular man.

It has absolutely NO bearing on this particular biological woman who seems to want to have her cake & eat it.

It is not the lesbian communities job to be her dating pool because women who are attracted to men don't count her as a man, while she rejects what the reality of being a lesbian & wants them to pretend she is a male.

It's abusive for either women who deny they are women or men who pretend they are women to expect normal lesbians to play a part in their drama.

From what has been said even if it isn't suspicious, what she is asking is illogical. If her identity is male then they cant say they are a lesbian. And without getting into detail if you identify as male, and have undergone surgery then no actual lesbian is going to accept you. Being lesbian is about being same sex attracted, ie to the female body. Not sure how much intimate detail the group goes into, and maybe some dont think that!

Nor can they use a lesbian support group to try and make friends. That derails the group and again asks women to give up their right to have support to become someone else's support.

I appreciate that she may be in need of support, but isn't there not a trans group in the area she could join.

It maybe that she is regretting transitioning, but again to support her in that changes the purpose of the group.

And if it is because she is having difficulty to find women to get involved with, then that is something she going to have to work through. That some heterosexual women will not want to be in a relationship with her, and neither will some lesbians.

I echo the suggestions up thread about some of the members of your group taking time to meet her and talk with her, and to ask her quite genuinely why is she says she identifies as male she can say she is a lesbian. And can she understand how confused you all are about how she can ask this.

(And of course, where and how she found out about the group.)

This does make me wonder whether there are any trans men support groups. So much noise and demands are about trans women not trans men.

This also brings up some sad memories of a women's group I was part of that came about for a particular project, and it just happened that everyone was lesbian. It was fairly thankless and time consuming work. And then just towards the end one of the women suddently announced they were about to transition, and said she realised she could not longer be part of the group and we were unlikely to see her again. We were all stunned, as had not had any notion that this was something she was considering, and probably didn't respond well. And we all just sort of stood there saying, how said it was that this was goodbye. This was 25/30 years ago.

Surely no one in the lesbian group will fancy her if she looks like a man?

Well yes, I suppose they can use this as a gotcha, I E ‘men can be lesbians, look at me, these lesbians let me in their club’.

Seems like a trick to me. They’ll wait until you reject/accept them, and then use that to score points somehow.

Transmen generally don’t want to be thought of as women and are very keen on being validated as men. A lesbian group is hardly going to do that. Does this person regret their transition? Presumably not if they still have a beard. Do they think lesbians will fancy them because straight women don’t? I’d dig a little more personally.

Out of curiosity, what would your stance be on bi women joining? @pattihews

How can you say "gender woo woo doesn't exist" and then refer to someone as Assigned Female at Birth?

Life’s too short. Let her in, the more the merrier.

You can't exclude TW if you exclude TM

Private group can exclude anyone they want.

I'm in the suspicious as fuck club.

If they really wanted to be seen as a man they would've been chuffed to be told to go away when initially mistook for one.

If they wanted to be seen by lesbians as a woman they wouldn't be taking hormones and calling themself a man.

You don't turn up uninvited to a private meeting, so either they've somehow managed to find out themselves for whatever their reason is or you have a traitor in your midst.

Ask how she found out about your private group.
Find out who invited her and why.

I would also say no new people allowed to be invited without the group knowing and approving in advance.

Agreed about gender woo. Buy if someone joins a lesbian group believing they are a man and not a lesbian? I dunno. It feels unfair to the rest. I honestly see the argument for both sides. IT’s tricky.

No. You don't. They can reject women who see themselves as men because a woman who doesn't acknowledge that she is a woman would not mesh with the ethos of a group for women who are exclusively attracted to women. And they can reject men who see themselves as women because they are men. It's perfectly acceptable to have a women's group that is only for biological women who consider themselves women. The fact is that people can identify their way out of a group but you can't identify into one. It's really life not a game of Othello.

It doesn't matter how she sees herself, gender woo woo doesn't exist.

Is she's AFAB then she's welcome in the group.

@pattihews
"I guess we need to hold a private meeting without her there to discuss what our issues are and what we're prepared to compromise on and where to draw the line."

Yeah, about that, just hang on a mo...
Why should your group have to make any compromise at all?
They've waltzed in, basically uninvited, without having the courtesy to check first if they would be welcome - at the very least, whoever told them about the group, should have said they'd make tentative enquiries first, though tbh, the trans person should have suggested that happen just out of basic courtesy/manners but hey ho.
Having turned up they've then already laid down the law as far as being called by a male name is concerned, which suggests possibly that it's a bad faith attempt to find a lesbian partner whilst giving the outward impression of being in a hetero relationship, is that really what lesbians want?
At the very least I'd have expected someone keen to join a group for lesbians, to embrace being a lesbian.
What is she looking for that she thinks she'll find in your group?
It would be very unfair, if there's any expectation on her behalf, of getting any type of support from a group of strangers, on first meeting.

I’d be inclined to say that you are not accepting ANY new members at the moment. You’ll get back to her in the New Year.

Or they are approaching the only people who might share a mutual attraction.

^This is the main issue I thought of.

They're trying to join lesbian group, they must think of themselves as a lesbian on some level

It seems an unusual situation and I would worry that it is a bit of a set up. If the decision was to let them join, the rules about it being a private club and they don’t get to invite others in with out the agreement of everyone else need to be clear. I feel a bit daft even suggesting it - but the trans man has been described as vulnerable. Is there any chance they are being used to gain access to the group? Is there any chance they have a trans woman partner/friend looking to join the group to cause trouble. A bit of time getting to know them, especially how they found out and then just decided to turn up - sounds prudent.

In your position before i did anything at all I would ascertain how he/she came into possession of the meet up details. If they’ve been given willingly by a member (so she believes she’s welcome) that would be very different from if she’s deliberately tried to “infiltrate “ for a political/trouble stirring motive.

I agree that I think this makes a huge difference. If the women in your group can invite anyone else along, then there’s a risk this person is putting on a vulnerable act and, once her feet are under the table, as it were, you might suddenly find that all sorts of less welcome male transitioners are being invited along. Given your group has been split before over this, I would be very wary unless you can ascertain that she was indeed invited and didn’t invite herself.

Even if they 💯 believe they are a man and therefore not a lesbian?

Im not saying I disagree but I think there’s nuance to this.

You can't exclude TW if you exclude TM. Biological women belong in women's groups, however gender non-conforming they are.
This is a woman who is attracted to women. They belong in a lesbian's group much more than a person with a penis & testicles who has a bit of lippy and a head tilt.

In your position before i did anything at all I would ascertain how he/she came into possession of the meet up details. If they’ve been given willingly by a member (so she believes she’s welcome) that would be very different from if she’s deliberately tried to “infiltrate “ for a political/trouble stirring motive.

Assuming she was invited or had reason to believe she was welcome then I think that the next step would be for one or two people to meet with her and have a chat about how she sees herself fitting into a lesbian women group.

my guy feeling from reading your post is that she is probably questioning/ thinking about de transitioning. I feel like she’d be unlikely to come to a lesbian group and describe herself as female if she truly identifies as a man.

My final thought would be to not let this become too big of a deal with lots of meetings and discussions. Ultimately I think the group will feel better if the focus remains on women’s issues and this person isn’t a big focus