Transman wants to join lesbian group...

I dunno, if you exclude her on the basis that TMAM then you have to accept the idea that TWAW. They are biologically female and are therefore a lesbian if they are looking for relationships with women, just like trans women are not lesbians. If I was a lesbian, I think I’d prefer to have a relationship with a woman with a beard than a “woman” with a penis!

Can't answer how other lesbian groups have dealt with this situation, but it strikes me that it would be entirely reasonable for your group to ask this male-presenting female how she sees herself within the group and how she sees herself fitting in.

Because you're right, it is a privilege to be part of an exclusive group; and not unreasonable to be asked in what way you qualify to be admitted.

It may be that they are acting in good faith. You're entitled to ask if that is the case.

I think I would welcome the opportunity to try and gently rescue them from the gender ideology that led them to trans.

Wanting to join the group could be a first step.

Lady loving lady here who has attended lesbian groups in the past.

I feel it would depend on their intentions. If they are questioning whether they are indeed transgender, maybe thinking they are in fact a lesbian, I would welcome them as a means to allow them to explore that identity. It would be on the proviso of using female pronouns whilst attending the group. If they are committed and progressing fully with their transition then I don't think it's an appropriate place. (I'm am supportive of people who feel the need to transition, but transitioning means you're not a lesbian, you're a heterosexual man).

Thinking out loud...

For me, either you allow her to join, or you welcome trans women.

I think it would be beneficial for her to mix with other lesbians and see how she can be herself without needing to trans.

I don't think she can compel pronouns, and may find it uncomfortable if she doesn't like that. Her name is irrelevant really. It's just a handle.

If it's not a dating group, then it doesn't matter if she's too male to fancy.

Argh! I too missed the 'other lesbian groups' line. I was wondering about my young friend, and hoping one day she'll end up joining a lesbian group as opposed to the rainbow letters group that have been helping her transition

if the group happily welcomes transwomen who have male bodies and accepts that their gender identity makes those transwomen lesbians then the group would be entirely reasonable to exclude a transman.

however it would be equally reasonable (or possibly more so, what with being based on physical reality) to say that any person who is female (however they dress, whatever they call themselves, whatever hormone pills they take) remains female in physical reality and if they are sexually attracted to women then they are a lesbian.

this person was sold a lie, that taking hormones and reinventing themselves would solve their problems. who knows where they are on their path through untangling that, but it seems to me that asking to be allowed to join a group for lesbians might be an important step towards healing and self acceptance. whilst it's not the responsibility of the group to be a therapy for recovery in this way, it would be good if there was room to be helpful, if possible.

I'm not a lesbian but I follow Scott Newgent, who nearly died from medical transition and now accepts that she is a woman and a lesbian but cannot detransition without incurring even more problems. She will always have a male voice, male-pattern baldness and have to shave even if she does detransition.

How has she asked to join? Can a meeting be arranged to discuss the obvious contradictions with her before a decision is made ?

As she's a biological woman, I would be supportive of her but this isn't my call to make. Sounds like she wants to try out being a lesbian (in case she is one.)

On the "can't have it both ways" side. If they identify as a man then they can't demand access to a group for lesbians.

Of course, sadly this exemplifies the loss that so many young women will experience having divorced their existence from reality, claimed a male identity yet now seek out a community / relationships where they feel comfortable. So very sad.

Personally I think the man identifying as a woman would have more of a claim to join a lesbian group

why? No male can be a lesbian. A lesbian is a female homosexual. A trans identified male therefore cannot ever be a lesbian. The trans identifying female could theoretically be a lesbian, but surely being in a group of female homosexuals would just reinforce the fact she is not a man

A woman who is attracted to women, I don't see what the problem is 🤷‍♀️

I'm coming to the point where I think lesbians are allowed to draw their own lines wherever they see fit
Amen.

then by that logic, the woman in question is a lesbian female with a beard, yet identifying as man

Personally I think the man identifying as a woman would have more of a claim to join a lesbian group

That sounds fine in theory but potentially complicated in practice.

Presumably the members who don’t accept her male identity will welcome her into the group, whereas the ones who do accept his belief that he is a man won’t want him.

Groucho Marx would love it: ‘I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member’

wants to attend regularly.
Why?

That's sounds like a heterosexual male.

Whereas if a transman has a relationship with a female then its a lesbian relationship.

How would you feel about a man identifying as a woman, that fancied women?

Haha!!!

I wouldn't mind a bio female in the group. Maybe they are having second thoughts about the transition.

I can't keep up.

A male who embraces the adornments of feminity and "identifies as a woman" and is attracted to women can be a lesbian and a female who embrace the adornments of masculinity and "identifies as a man" and is attracted to can also be a lesbian.

I can understand the indignation.

Just asked my 18 year old who is a lesbian. She says it depends. She says she would initially welcome them as they are a lesbian, assuming they are attracted to women.

They are a biological woman, who is attracted to other biological women. Therefore a lesbian. She wouldn’t be welcoming if to a trans woman, who was attracted to women wanted to join.

She says how friendly she was with them would depend on how they were as a person after that.

what you describe is a highly unconventional form of womanhood but is still, unquestionably, an example of it.

re: terms of address, this maybe sounds odd but: (1) to me your name is literally what you call yourself so if this person wants to be called 'Mike' then fair enough; but (2) I wouldn't be quite so understanding when it comes to third person terms of address (pronouns), which very much exist for the benefit of the speaker and the person being spoken to.

Surely that’s very invalidating for him?