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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Change of CEO at mermaids…

889 replies

backaftera2yearbreak · 25/11/2022 17:52

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/susie-green-leaves-mermaids/

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MrsJamin · 26/11/2022 16:03

According to SG's personal Instagram account, she was on holiday from 10-22 November (perhaps even longer). Not sure if that's relevant but it seems odd that in such a turbulent time at Mermaids, she was on annual leave? Unless she was using up AL before leaving Mermaids?

I too think she's off to the USA, unless she goes to jail. There's definitely more news to come, though.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 26/11/2022 15:57

Dreikanter · 26/11/2022 15:44

I wonder if Green has left with a negotiated settlement? The terse wording of the Mermaids statement makes me think it was not a resignation, and this would protect Mermaids against employment claims from Green and leave her with a lump sum payoff and a gagging clause.

They should buy her one of those Balenciaga bear handbags as a leaving gift. One wearing a blindfold and a gag.

ImNotOnTwitterButMySupportGoldfinchTweets · 26/11/2022 15:55

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 26/11/2022 09:50

I am sincerely hoping that there is enough evidence of failures and mismanagement that she would be seen as a lawsuit waiting to happen particularly in the US.

I believe that as soon as litigation really gets going in the US from detransitioners etc (some of which is already threatened) there will be a major reverse ferret from corporations who will be afraid of the cost. It won't be a moral stance, it will be naked financial self-interest and reputational damage limitation. What insurance company will insure a doctor performing gender surgery if million-dollar lawsuits are lurking in the background.

This is the problem with that ghoul of a doctor Gallagher. She’s operating without insurance now, which just means that lawyers won’t take cases against her as there’ll be no big insurance pay out. She’s protecting herself and the insurance companies. What’s worrying is that some of these young people have sufficiently disordered thinking that they’re going ahead with major experimental surgery with uninsured doctors.

Dreikanter · 26/11/2022 15:44

I wonder if Green has left with a negotiated settlement? The terse wording of the Mermaids statement makes me think it was not a resignation, and this would protect Mermaids against employment claims from Green and leave her with a lump sum payoff and a gagging clause.

CaveMum · 26/11/2022 15:40

As the Balenziaga case was being discussed before, I see they’re now trying to sue the ad agency involved.

Not entirely sure that such a campaign could have been planned, paid for and released without the client’s approval though 🤔

twitter.com/lailamickelwait/status/1596341372415418369?s=46&t=zapXKyMm5pma9x84u2FDEg

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 26/11/2022 15:33

I have a Twitter account I set up years ago and never used, so sometimes I use that, as I'm not blocked by all the usual suspects on that account (as I am on my main one, even though I hardly ever tweet, just follow a few people). Looking at the retweets of the Mermaids announcement, I would say there were at least 15 GC retweets saying 'Good' and similar for every one saying 'Thanks Susie'. There was one retweet saying SG had done some good things but the charity should be led by a trans person now. This of course ignores that it was set up to be a support to parents and their gender questioning children, not just trans people.

Ch3wylemon · 26/11/2022 15:22

I have a tame Twitter for work purposes and follow some people on both sides of the debate. India W saying it's all nasty propaganda and busy tweeting about other things. Nothing to see here.

Others, have less to say.

WallaceinAnderland · 26/11/2022 15:09

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 26/11/2022 07:47

Much as I despise SG, Mermaids are having a giraffe, if they think they can get away with scape-goating her, then moving on. She was very, very vocal about what she was doing. There's no way the Board can pretend they didn't know.

Like Belinda Bell, chair of Mermaids, who stated in court that she had not read the Cass Review.

Boiledbeetle · 26/11/2022 15:03

RedToothBrush · 26/11/2022 14:55

Just having a chat with DH over this.

I was talking and he went "hang on a second. She was the CEO AND safeguarding lead? That's really bad practice for a start because it concentrates all the power in an organisation in one person and makes it much harder for them to be challenged if there are any issues."

His point is you need to have a culture where challenging authority within an organisation can be done through multiple channels so there is accountability. If the CEO and safeguarding lead are two different people you always have two routes of accountability. Basic checks and balances principles. If you only have one then you get more of a dictator effect. It makes the whole organisation more vulnerable to safeguarding issues.

Remembering this is children's charity too. Its a structural weakness that the trustees should address going forward.

Susie Green played a huge role in stopping safeguarding over sight at GIDS and in being both CEO and safeguarding lead at Mermaids structurally limited it there too.

For someone with a god complex its going to be one hell of a crash back down to reality for her.

And the fact that according to Fussi's TRA/cat feed there's not a lot of chatter either way about her swift exit...it doesn't bode well. I can imagine her constantly refreshing her Twitter feed and getting more and more angry as the day progresses.

Boiledbeetle · 26/11/2022 14:59

FusilliFettler · 26/11/2022 14:51

It’s still cat on Fusilli’s TRA/cat twitter feed. The only person who mentioned it is Emily Bridges’ mum. (hi Sandy 👋🏼)

There’s a lot of talk about a WPATH report into the NHS England trans healthcare guidelines but nothing about SG.
Call me cynical but it’s almost co-ordinated.

I'm going to be honest when you first posted about TRA/ cat Twitter feed I took that to mean you couldn't be arsed reading TRA tweets and you were going to spend the night watching cat related things.

Duh! Then I read your earlier post today and the lightbulb went on.

That is an amazing way to keep track of what's going on.

Of course I now expect you to start your own thread so that you can do morning and nightly updates for those of us too lazy to do the same. Some of us can't even be arsed to open a Twitter account!

Boiled, who may (or probably more likely may not) have a Twitter account

RedToothBrush · 26/11/2022 14:55

Just having a chat with DH over this.

I was talking and he went "hang on a second. She was the CEO AND safeguarding lead? That's really bad practice for a start because it concentrates all the power in an organisation in one person and makes it much harder for them to be challenged if there are any issues."

His point is you need to have a culture where challenging authority within an organisation can be done through multiple channels so there is accountability. If the CEO and safeguarding lead are two different people you always have two routes of accountability. Basic checks and balances principles. If you only have one then you get more of a dictator effect. It makes the whole organisation more vulnerable to safeguarding issues.

Remembering this is children's charity too. Its a structural weakness that the trustees should address going forward.

Susie Green played a huge role in stopping safeguarding over sight at GIDS and in being both CEO and safeguarding lead at Mermaids structurally limited it there too.

FusilliFettler · 26/11/2022 14:51

It’s still cat on Fusilli’s TRA/cat twitter feed. The only person who mentioned it is Emily Bridges’ mum. (hi Sandy 👋🏼)

There’s a lot of talk about a WPATH report into the NHS England trans healthcare guidelines but nothing about SG.
Call me cynical but it’s almost co-ordinated.

DameMaud · 26/11/2022 14:26

DameMaud · 25/11/2022 20:01

Didn't someone, on a thread somewhere, once post the early, original mermaid approach - pre Susie Green. If anyone still has that it would be great to look at it again? It was much as you described Ben, as I recall it

Found it:
(Someone put it on Helen Webberley's Twitter)

twitter.com/coccinellanovem/status/1596502004981170176?s=20&t=LfiO3m_OI-mwjiY8GbWx1w

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/11/2022 14:25

The problem from the outset is that nature of what Mermaids (& other organisations like Gendered Intelligence with their "mentors" for school children) want to do is incompatible with safeguarding. Random strangers with no professional qualifications or competence, just being trans, talking to unknown, children about their developing bodies, their ideas /fears / fantasies about sex / sexuality / sexual identity, techniques to modify their bodies including binding drugs and surgery. Developing a secret relationship with a child, often engaging in actions to help modify a child's body in secret from their parents. That's an adult manipulating & exploiting a child's naivety, emotions, fears and anxieties, aided and abetted by an organisation with no understanding of, or concern for, safeguarding children.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 26/11/2022 14:25

PatientZorro · 26/11/2022 14:22

Yes that would truly be a day to celebrate. She can while away the time chatting to her trans woman cellmate.

Mic drop @PatientZorro

PatientZorro · 26/11/2022 14:22

RoyalCorgi · 26/11/2022 14:20

I hope you're right, Resister. There are few things that would make me happier than seeing Susie Green taken off to prison.

Yes that would truly be a day to celebrate. She can while away the time chatting to her trans woman cellmate.

RoyalCorgi · 26/11/2022 14:20

I hope you're right, Resister. There are few things that would make me happier than seeing Susie Green taken off to prison.

ResisterRex · 26/11/2022 14:16

I've never been able to believe that's what's happened to various children under the auspices of "affirmation" isn't an offence or collection of offences. Perhaps then, this is the starting point, the 1933 Act:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/23-24/12

DameMaud · 26/11/2022 14:15

RedToothBrush · 26/11/2022 13:10

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mermaids_(charity)

Just read the Wikipedia entry on Mermaids.

Its stark and doesn't cover everything - certainly no mention of the plethora of penis incident.

One of the things that stands out for me is Green's direct involvement with a couple of things this year which are crucially important to write here for context. The timings are of note.

Firstly in March Green forced Trans Gender Trend out of a conference at Great Ormond Street in March. The conference was then cancelled.

Then in July you had the Cass Review which closed GIDS.

This sits with the following quote in the wiki:
After taking her child to Boston in 2007 to receive puberty blockers, Susie Green worked to make them available in Britain from GIDS. In response, GIDS began prescribing blockers from 2011 onwards, making them widely available in response to demand from families. Clinical psychologist Kirsty Entwistle, on the GIDS staff from 2017, said: "Those who'd connected with Mermaids were terrified, because they'd been told that their child was going to kill themselves if they didn't get blockers." GIDS describes suicide as "extremely rare".

The implication being that there was a difference between families who come via Mermaids and those who had not. That's striking.

Then you have in September Green co-authoring the 8th edition of the standards of care issued by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health which goes contrary to the CASS Review in numerous places.

You cannot simultaneously claim to be pleased "cautiously optimistic" (quote from Susie Green) over the CASS Review and then have two witnesses in the LGB Alliance case for your side freely admit they hadn't read the case review and then co-author guidance that goes completely against the Cass Review and claim you have robust safeguarding.

It is an impossible position to hold.

All someone has to do is identify these points on the same thing which identify a lack of consistency and over sight that the organisation was fully aware of the contents of the Cass Review and ensured all staff and representatives knew and understood this and its safeguarding implications. Susie Green just cracked on with her own agenda anyway.

I would argue that Mermaids not making sure all staff and representatives were fully versed in the Cass Review is deeply negligent in its own right alone. The review was into safeguarding, yet Mermaids understanding of it can be described as 'fuzzy' at best.

There are also rumours about organisations trying to block the publication of the Cass Review in the first place. If Mermaids or Susie Green's name or any key Mermaids personal pop up in this context, they'd be a real problem. This hasn't happened yet but I don't think its beyond the realms of possibility by any means.

Certainly all this business about not being medical experts but then co-authoring medical pathway recommendations and giving out binders post Cass Review are deeply problematic and centre - at least in part - around Susie Green again.

This doesn't take a lot to see. This is without scratching below the surface.

Great nd useful summary. Thanks Red

FusionChefGeoff · 26/11/2022 14:07

FusilliFettler · 26/11/2022 12:23

My TRA/cat video twitter feed is still cats. Which makes me think the main TRAs know what’s about to land. They’re all connected, just as the women’s groups talk to each other the TRAs/trans organisations are networked, and the silence is deafening.
Interesting.

In all the scandal and speculation and rejoicing I think this is my favourite thing. It's like when they used the octopus to predict football scores - the big question moving forward will always be "Ah yes, but what does this news mean? Over to @FusilliFettler for the ultimate verdict: TRA Tantrum or Cats"

DameMaud · 26/11/2022 14:02

NotBadConsidering · 26/11/2022 11:44

Jackie has no room for regrets.

This is important to note. There are many people who are dealt a blow of some sort and they don’t want to dwell on the past because it can’t be changed. Regret is a hazy measurement of whether something should have happened differently. Some people find the inner strength to live their lives without regrets, some struggle with the trauma for life.

Support groups for adults in this situation will be needed in the coming decades.

Yes. Genspect have created a service specifically for this

Boiledbeetle · 26/11/2022 14:01

RedToothBrush · 26/11/2022 13:57

For Susie Green situation with her child? You can't retrospectively be prosecuted for things before the law has been changed. The time line makes it difficult.

I suppose the best way to prosecute her for something from before the law was changed would be that the person that was harmed, Jackie, would have to go to the police and ask for their parents to be investigated for child abuse.

Fingers crossed that when/if JG realises they had an abusive childhood they will do exactly this and go to the police.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/11/2022 13:57

Undermining child safeguarding is a feature not a bug with this ideology. Someone linked the WPATH response to the new NHS guidelines - just look at how many of their comments somplainabout safeguarding measures / age appropriate responses. They even challenge the idea that all a child's mental health issues should be acknowledged / treated.

listloop.com/wpath/mail.cgi/archive/adhoc/20221125183220/

It really is a case of "when someone shows you who they are, believe them the fist time".

RedToothBrush · 26/11/2022 13:57

ResisterRex · 26/11/2022 13:47

Wouldn't a starting point be the "serious physical harm" element of "causing or allowing" under the 2004 Act, as amended?

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/child-abuse-non-sexual-prosecution-guidance

"Causing or allowing death or serious physical harm
Section 5 of the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004 (DVCVA 2004) created the offence of causing or allowing the death a child or vulnerable adult. The section was amended by the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims (Amendment) Act 2012. The amendment came into force on 2 July 2012 and extended the offence in section 5 to cover cases of causing or allowing a child or vulnerable adult to suffer serious physical harm.
This stand-alone offence imposes a duty upon members of a household to take reasonable steps to protect children or vulnerable adults within that household from the foreseeable risk of serious physical harm from other household members."

For Susie Green situation with her child? You can't retrospectively be prosecuted for things before the law has been changed. The time line makes it difficult.

ResisterRex · 26/11/2022 13:47

Wouldn't a starting point be the "serious physical harm" element of "causing or allowing" under the 2004 Act, as amended?

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/child-abuse-non-sexual-prosecution-guidance

"Causing or allowing death or serious physical harm
Section 5 of the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004 (DVCVA 2004) created the offence of causing or allowing the death a child or vulnerable adult. The section was amended by the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims (Amendment) Act 2012. The amendment came into force on 2 July 2012 and extended the offence in section 5 to cover cases of causing or allowing a child or vulnerable adult to suffer serious physical harm.
This stand-alone offence imposes a duty upon members of a household to take reasonable steps to protect children or vulnerable adults within that household from the foreseeable risk of serious physical harm from other household members."