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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Today I found my bravery!

55 replies

Vebrithien · 24/11/2022 18:06

Waiting for my DD to come out from her after-school club, in her primary school. Saw the poster below. Whilst I was looking, the deputy head of the school was also collecting his DC at the same time, and said hello, asked if I was okay.

I pointed out to him that the wording was incorrect (gender, not sex, as it should be). He asked about what it was in the Equalities Act. I confirmed that the Equalities Act states sex, not gender. Therefore, the poster was not showing the 9 protected characteristics correctly, as they are stated in law (and everything else was named correctly 😡)

He thanked me for bringing it to his attention, as it wasn't something that they had produced, but as it was showing in their school, it did need to be correct.

I'll be checking again, next week, for the poster, when I next collect DD.

Today I found my bravery!
OP posts:
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Vebrithien · 29/11/2022 09:50

Well, the poster was still up, yesterday evening.
I'm going to give it until Thursday, and then send a message. Expressing my disappointment.

Any hints on what I should send?

OP posts:
TheBiologyStupid · 25/11/2022 17:32

It seems that "bring your whole self to work" & "be kind" has morphed into a refusal by organisations to set any boundaries for adults seeking to influence children - which history tells us is catastrophic. A school who employed these people would be shut down - yet there's a massive loophole for organisations working in / with / providing materials for schools.

True, although Moffat was employed in schools and his involvement at the 2008 No Outsiders seminar Queering the Body; Queering Primary Education is somewhat worrying given the questions posed included "At what cost do we deny children’s and teacher’s sexuality? What do we lose if desire and pleasure are banned from the classroom? What is the place of the research team members’ own bodies, desires and pleasures in this research?" As the Transgender Trend piece noted, "Reading these questions, you have to keep reminding yourself that the bodies in question are those of adults and the children aged 5 to 11 who are in their care to learn".

Of course, participation in the seminar doesn't mean that he shared all of the views expressed - but the project it related to was clearly central to the teaching materials he went on to produce and Queer Theory appears to run through the project, the seminar, and his publications.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 25/11/2022 16:54

TheBiologyStupid · 25/11/2022 13:46

Thanks - really useful background on the origin and intentions of No Outsiders.

Sadly (because it's in nobody's interests to view charities with suspicion, especially those demanding access to schools) when you look behind the scenes you'll find a depressing number of adults who have no business working near children. Examples include breaching safeguarding principles / paedophile adjacent (Challenor / Stonewall), dodgy porn advocates (girl guides), Mermaids staff (paedophile "apologist" / online provider of nude porn photos).

It seems that "bring your whole self to work" & "be kind" has morphed into a refusal by organisations to set any boundaries for adults seeking to influence children - which history tells us is catastrophic. A school who employed these people would be shut down - yet there's a massive loophole for organisations working in / with / providing materials for schools.

TheBiologyStupid · 25/11/2022 13:46

southbiscay · 25/11/2022 06:31

Thanks - really useful background on the origin and intentions of No Outsiders.

TeenDivided · 25/11/2022 13:37

Just reading it!

DameMaud · 25/11/2022 13:35

Have you seen this thread @TeenDivided ?
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4684885-school-curriculum-a-personal-win

MrsOvertonsWindow · 25/11/2022 13:33

Vebrithien · 25/11/2022 08:17

@TeenDivided Thank you, now that I have stuck my head above the parapet, I don't intend to let this go.

"Nevertheless she persisted..."

We're at a tipping point with the damaging impact this ideology is having on children finally being acknowledged & spoken about. Now is the time for parents to speak out and challenge schools where there's unthinking promotion of trans ideology so that future generations of children are protected.

Well done OP.

Vebrithien · 25/11/2022 08:17

@TeenDivided Thank you, now that I have stuck my head above the parapet, I don't intend to let this go.

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 25/11/2022 06:43

If you were writing further then probably need to include a paragraph explicitly saying no problem with trans people but concerned that sex is the protected characteristic, children mustn't be taught they can change sex, that gender identity is a belief or something.

TeenDivided · 25/11/2022 06:41

southbiscay · 25/11/2022 06:31

I think it was brave if the OP felt nervous about doing it. Doing anything you are worried about is brave.

OP what you could do if you wanted, would be to follow up with an email.

Sort of

Dear DH,

Just a follow up on the No Outsiders poster that I mentioned to you last week. <thank you for taking it down/correcting it>. I was wondering about the organisation that produced it getting the protected characteristic of sex wrong on the poster, and whether they had a specific agenda, so I did a bit of research, and following that I am a bit concerned as to whether the school uses an other of their resources?

My concerns are .....

It might be better if the school got its resources for this from .... because ....

southbiscay · 25/11/2022 06:28

About 3 years ago at a guess some GC person did a deep dive investigation into no outsiders showing how they want to indoctrinate young kids into queer theory. It was shocking. I can't find the link. It was about the time that Jess Phillips got involved in the Birmingham school protests. I'll keep looking.

thirdfiddle · 25/11/2022 02:03

That no outsiders thing, yuck. Narcissist dad. Your toddler in dress up is entirely unremarkable. Tell him he looks beautiful and stop him from hassling older kids.

It reads like the writer hasn't set foot in a primary school in at least a generation.

(PS in NoOutsiders world, shouldn't the dad be excommunicated for assuming the gender of everyone else in the story?)

NewLightbulbs · 25/11/2022 01:39

thelionthewitchtheaudacityofTHISbitch

What?

In the current climate, the OP, Vebrithien, has been brave, for picking up on this lie on a poster in her children's school, and pointing it out to the deputy head.

No drama, seems like an adult conversation was had.

Hope Vebrithien and her school and deputy head get together to rid the school of an odious, sexist, homophobic ideology.

thelionthewitchtheaudacityofTHISbitch · 25/11/2022 01:25

Well done for pointing it out but clearly in a way that was firm and factual. The DH would have seen that you were polite, but serious. That carried wight.

But I do agree with @Iheartjoanne this isnt brave. It is necessary. But not brave. And no I am not a goady fucker, yes I have heard of all the names someone listed (as funnily enough I am often on twitter either commenting or forwarding tweets from those very same people). I am rather tired of people saying that they are supportive of GC/Womens rights view but wouldnt want to comment due to x, y, z excuse, but they do so much behind the scenes. Yeah - sorry don't believe a word of that. Integrity, as a professional, is about standing up and standing firm for the right cause. Most people have honesty but very few have integrity. I do.

NewLightbulbs · 25/11/2022 00:31

Well done, OP. Accurate language is so important - especially when something is meant to refer to UK law and the Equality Act - and then misrepresents it, as you pointed out.

Well done. That was brave of you, given the current climate.

You are correct in what you said.

Glad that you got a reasonable response from the deputy head too.

LunaLights · 24/11/2022 23:43

I take it that the “Joanne” that @Iheartjoanne loves is not JKR?

TheBiologyStupid · 24/11/2022 23:26

BellaAmorosa · 24/11/2022 23:18

Name change fail, @Iheartjoanne /@PumpkinQueens?
😉

Oops!

BellaAmorosa · 24/11/2022 23:18

Name change fail, @Iheartjoanne /@PumpkinQueens?
😉

Vebrithien · 24/11/2022 23:09

Grammarnut · 24/11/2022 21:18

What she pointed out was that sex does not equal gender and it is sex that is protected under the EA2010. Gender ideologists insist that gender is the characteristic which is protected - gender is a social construct and sex is biological but pointing this out tends to cause a backlash from the TRA lobby. That's why she is brave. And she is brave.

Thank you @Grammarnut

It felt like I had to be brave. My DD is in infants, she knows nothing about all the shit that is likely to be thrown at her as she grows up, simply because she is female. I want to protect her legal, sex based rights and protections.

But likewise, I don't want to be "that parent", that the school rolls their eyes at. I don't want her to suffer, or have people tarring her, because I believe, and have experienced, that sex matters.

And I truly, deeply apologise for pluralising the Equality Act 2010. A hearing impairment and autocorrect can do that to a person.

OP posts:
Itsalloutofwhack · 24/11/2022 21:31

Well done OP. I went stickering recently in my home town which floweth over with genderists and pink and blue stickers. It did feel brave at the same time as feeling daft that it should feel that way.

RightsHoarder · 24/11/2022 21:18

Well done! This stuff just slides in unnoticed and often unchallenged and people like you make a massive difference. Bravo!

Grammarnut · 24/11/2022 21:18

Iheartjoanne · 24/11/2022 20:12

What is brave about pointing out an inaccuracy on a poster?

What she pointed out was that sex does not equal gender and it is sex that is protected under the EA2010. Gender ideologists insist that gender is the characteristic which is protected - gender is a social construct and sex is biological but pointing this out tends to cause a backlash from the TRA lobby. That's why she is brave. And she is brave.

dropthevipers · 24/11/2022 21:14

This is how we kill this bollocks with fire-small individual push backs of the stonewall kool aid any and every where we find it such as to create a tidal wave of scientific reality which wipes out the gender woo.

HermioneWeasley · 24/11/2022 20:51

Well done OP

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