The vast majority of people can identify other people's sex; so why the pretence that men are women?

It's an assertion of power and privilege to make people repeat lies. Very patriarchy. Much totalitarian. If we all do it, they'll know they've won.

TRA in the tweets, TERF in the sheets

😂

Steven Fry is this week's rather grubby example) to see that those most supporting this know exactly who are the males and who are the females in this situation

TRA in the tweets, TERF in the sheets.

shamelessly borrowed from Twitter and in reference to LOJ, but very applicable to Stephen Fry also

Sorry quote should be in italics:

It is one giant, sexist game of lets pretend.

nilsmousehammer

I agreed with your whole post, but this in a nutshell is it.

It is one giant, sexist game of lets pretend.

My teen's school spent a huge amount of time teaching them how media images are doctored and not real. What a world we live in that we have to do that?

The brow line often gives them away. And the lip line. And the jaw line (although of course if you tilt your head and hold your mouth in a come hither look you can disguise it a bit).

No there is no sanity.

There's not a lot of point disappearing down the rabbit hole of nitpicking can you tell, but really, how many do you just not know etc etc -

You only have to look at the biggest name TQ+ supporters (Steven Fry is this week's rather grubby example) to see that those most supporting this know exactly who are the males and who are the females in this situation, there is no question in their mind at all that sex is binary and fixed.

Because they extend two totally different sets of standards, expectations and values on two sex based groups, and they never shift any of those no matter what the degree of a male person's transition. There is never a point at which a TQ+ identified male disappears into the mud of the 'therapeutic resource for shitwork who isn't allowed a voice' group.

It is one giant, sexist game of lets pretend.

Yes, I agree. I do think that the emphasis on filtered images in the trans community is a symptom of how much TW spend living online rather than in the real world where perceptions are very different (i.e. there is no hiding behind a filter).

@DameHelena I see, thank you :)

As you say though, we don't live in heavily doctored photographs, we live in the real world so it doesn't really matter if a man can pass as a woman in a photo because anyone could pass as anything in a photo with the right lighting/prosthetics/makeup.

I think that's what they mean: that in a heavily doctored pic you may not be able to tell (although that's up for debate IMO), but looking at the same person in RL you absolutely can tell.

That's the same person isn't it? The cyclist what's-his-name? Are you trying to say you can't tell the one on the right is male from a sideview headshot because I think we're referring to real life in this thread.

In a side view headshot with the right makeup and lighting I could pass for 35 again but I'm clearly a lot older in real life😂

That's a good point @Brokendaughter and something that didn't really register before but yes, men do really smell different to women. It's something so obvious, like the sky being blue, that I've never thought about it before.

My son definitely has a manly smell he didn't have as a young teen where as his sisters have no discernible smell (not to me anyway...maybe they do to men and men can't smell the manly smell, that would make sense from an evolutionary perspective).

One of the interesting things about becoming partially sighted is that I do pay attention more to my other senses than I used to.

yes. My eyesight is becoming worse each year and I know see a blob in the distance without my glasses on and that blob has just enough detail for my brain to assess whether it is a male or female coming. From the gait and other cues that have nothing to do with what is being worn or make up or hair.

And then now as they get close enough, it is the proportions of the facial features, hands and feet.

It is also not kind to allow a male to believe that they 'pass' when they actually don't.

And it is absolute bollocks that males have been using female single sex spaces undetected for 'decades'. They may have been in there, but they were not undetected.

One of the interesting things about becoming partially sighted is that I do pay attention more to my other senses than I used to.

You can't just see that men are not women when they are all dressed up (whether they are one of the tiny minority who have had surgery or not), but you can smell that they are men.

When a man uses a toilet, it smells like a man has used it, when a man walks past, (even drenched in perfume) he still smells like a man wearing a feminine aftershave rather than a woman.

It's not just the physical body & the brain, it's body chemistry too.
Even the blind can tell the difference between anyone born a man or a woman.

No matter how stocky & male in appearance some women might be at a casual glance, they still don't smell like men even if they wear aftershave.

I think it's far more than our eyes that tell us which sex someone is & there is absolutely nothing you can do about that to change it.

And why the pretence that people who identify as non binary are anything other than male or female?

Thinking of all the women and girls across the world who don’t have the luxury of opting out of their sex based oppression.

Although I presume you might have received an email from MNHQ when they changed the offensive wording of the title.

Not always

You didn't come back to that thread after you plopped it down, did you?

Exactly. In real life you can tell, especially trans women. IMO trans men tend to look like an old fashioned stereo-typical lesbian, probably because many are lesbians.

It's in the gait, the skeletal mass and the general 'presence' which is why I can put on my sons clothes, get my hair cut short, wear no make-up and still no-one would be in any doubt I am a woman despite being 5ft 10 tall and what used to be referred to as a 'boyish frame'.

A man however can put on all the make up, dresses, heels etc and will still walk like a man and have a mans skeletal shape and presence.

You can't fight nature and expect to win.

I don't think it's kind at all. It reinforces the ides that your identity is restricted by your body. Although gender ideologues attack GC people for restricting people's identity, they can't or won't see that it is them that has tied body to identity. They are the restrictive ones. Yes we can spot a man a mile off in most cases but that is only threatening if they make it so.

Blokes are blokes.

Lasses are lasses.

Everyone knows the difference.

Top tip, people can tell you what they want you to think, but they can’t actually stop you thinking whatever you like. You can behave in whatever way and say whatever you like but must take the consequences. Simply stating that you are female and “everyone” thinks you are doesn’t make it true. Simply stating that all the good people don’t mind you being in single sex place’s despite being the opposite sex doesn’t make it true.