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Original poster

Just despair - HOW do some women just not get it!

284 replies

Mynewchairhasarmrests · 21/11/2022 09:24

Just finished a brilliant novel written by a female author about friendships, girlhoo, womanhood, and growing up as a girl. She was so absolutely on the money about what it’s like to be a young woman and the pressures of looking and acting a certain way, the awful way women are so often treated by men, the way women are portrayed in the media, how we are programmed not to recognise sexual assault and told its just boys having fun, and how we aren’t believed even if we do report it. Her anger and passion really came through and it was good, though depressing, to read someone telling it exactly like it is.

You know what’s coming. I then look on her social media. She’s a TRA. Signed a letter condemning JKR for being ‘anti trans’. Condemns Germaine Greer for being so wrong on trans issues.

I just don’t understand how these women can see the misogyny everywhere they look BUT the place where it’s in its worst, purest form - gender ideology.

Its like a glitch in the coding somewhere. Why can’t they see it? I have another friend who is on the board of a rape charity. We had long conversations about how shit it can be to be a woman. The misogyny everywhere. I was sure she must be GC. But no. A TRA. Doesn’t speak to me now she knows I’m a TERF.

I just don’t get it. Is it fear of societal disapproval? A reluctance to admit the liberal progressive cause they publicly embraced is anything but and that they’ve been had?

OP posts:
Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 17:19

Scyla · 21/11/2022 17:09

Sorry but that is very weak. And there’s no way of know if it is actually more or less.

I explained that "less" means men keeping their identity as a woman secret.

So what do you think MORE means?

More sex offenders identifying as women? Can you tell us what you think more means?

A % of one unknown number compared to a % of another completely different unknown number cannot be directly compared.*

It's not that though is it?

It's 40% of men who identify as trans and are sex offenders are compared with men who don't and are sex offenders which is 19%.

If more of the 19 percent should be added to the 40 is it getting better or worse?

@Scyla
It is that.
“It's 40% of men who identify as trans and are sex offenders are compared with men who don't and are sex offenders which is 19%.”

You’ve got the categories mixed up your statement should have read
It's 41% of prisoners who identify as trans and are sex offenders are compared with all prisoners who are sex offenders which is 19%.

x= trans identifying sex offenders (could be male or female)
y= all sex offenders in prison population (could be male or female or trans)

both x and y are unknowns and x cannot be determined per MoJ BBC article that your friends have linked to but obviously didn’t understand what it meant.

Of you don’t know x then how could the authors have calculated the 41% in the first case?

beastlyslumber · 21/11/2022 17:18

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 17:13

Well, the thread is full of them
LaughingPriest · Today 10:03
I've wondered this over the years and after thoughtful consideration, my analysis is they're either lying or thick.

Show quote history

That's not a personal attack. It's not directed at anyone personally.

If you choose to take it personally, that's on you. Doesn't give you the right to make personal attacks on others.

howmanybicycles · 21/11/2022 17:16

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 17:13

Well, the thread is full of them
LaughingPriest · Today 10:03
I've wondered this over the years and after thoughtful consideration, my analysis is they're either lying or thick.

Show quote history

You need to take responsibility for your own actions. Call put others if you feel offended but don't use it as justification to behave badly.

Scyla · 21/11/2022 17:15

Well it's useful for people to see how much flailing goes on.

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 17:13

howmanybicycles · 21/11/2022 17:10

This is an inappropriate personal attack. People are not inevitably playing games just because they disagree with you or find your views abhorrent.

Show quote history

Well, the thread is full of them
LaughingPriest · Today 10:03
I've wondered this over the years and after thoughtful consideration, my analysis is they're either lying or thick.

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 17:13

Scyla · 21/11/2022 17:01

And yet again we see how an ally very quickly reaches for disparagement and insults whilst failing to understand what is being said.

@Scyla
I’m quick to disparage by saying something at 5pm, a full 7hrs after the first insult levied at people like me? Lol

LaughingPriest · Today 10:03
I've wondered this over the years and after thoughtful consideration, my analysis is they're either lying or thick.

Oh and there’s pages and pages for hours and hours of more of this sort before I give one little blip of disparagement.

LaughingPriest · 21/11/2022 17:12

Not... Not a change of subject into what FWR posters are like instead of answering an extremely straightforward question?

But that never happens! It never happens so much it's almost become my catchphrase?!

howmanybicycles · 21/11/2022 17:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This is an inappropriate personal attack. People are not inevitably playing games just because they disagree with you or find your views abhorrent.

Scyla · 21/11/2022 17:09

Sorry but that is very weak. And there’s no way of know if it is actually more or less.

I explained that "less" means men keeping their identity as a woman secret.

So what do you think MORE means?

More sex offenders identifying as women? Can you tell us what you think more means?

A % of one unknown number compared to a % of another completely different unknown number cannot be directly compared.*

It's not that though is it?

It's 40% of men who identify as trans and are sex offenders are compared with men who don't and are sex offenders which is 19%.

If more of the 19 percent should be added to the 40 is it getting better or worse?

LaughingPriest · 21/11/2022 17:07

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 17:03

nice out of context, so how does one back up mathematics like 2+2=4? Only more complex maths like how you cannot conclude that 0.4x is more than 0.19y?

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0.4 is always a higher proportion than 0.19.

Which is what we are talking about.

This is fantastic. A great display of "why people don't get it".

ArabellaScott · 21/11/2022 17:06

So, OP, to answer your question - another explanation for why some people are willing to throw women's rights away is that some people very well understand the problems, but don't see them as problems. The loss of women's rights and safeguarding, for some people, are 'a feature, not a glitch', as the saying goes.

These people are in the minority, but they certainly do exist.

beastlyslumber · 21/11/2022 17:05

It's not the maths that's the issue, though. The issue is why are sex offenders identifying as trans?

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 17:03

Helleofabore · 21/11/2022 16:58

I suspect that they don't think that they need to be taken seriously.

Show quote history

nice out of context, so how does one back up mathematics like 2+2=4? Only more complex maths like how you cannot conclude that 0.4x is more than 0.19y?

Scyla · 21/11/2022 17:01

And yet again we see how an ally very quickly reaches for disparagement and insults whilst failing to understand what is being said.

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 17:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 17:00

Helleofabore · 21/11/2022 16:57

That is fine.

Readers will make up their own minds as they read along. We shall simply post what the courts decided and then some examples of the prominent trans people who then admitted on social media that they lied on the census.

There was a whole lot of falsehoods in your claim. But it is fine. That can be countered and readers can make up their own decisions.

Show quote history

🤷‍♀️ Why bother? It was deleted so there’s nothing to counter. but knock yourself out, I think your time would be better spent learning how to do stats myself as the issue with the figures on the sexsegregatedprisonsnow that you linked were blatantly obvious at first glance, which didn’t notice as you said you believed those figures.

Helleofabore · 21/11/2022 17:00

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 16:52

Please understand I am not playing your game. You like to send anyone you disagrees with you off on rabbit hunts. Yet you sit and spout and link stuff that doesn’t even support what you say. Why should I back up my claims when you don’t?

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No one here is 'playing' games by the way.

This is fucking serious stuff.

ArabellaScott · 21/11/2022 16:59

Soothsayer1 · 21/11/2022 16:47

because mumsnet gets a cut from amazon, if someone here buys something from them

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Thanks. But how does the referral bit get put in there? If I c&p a link from amazon, it's not there:

www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Science-Ben-Goldacre/dp/000728487X

  • woah, checked on preview - it adds it in! What black art is this?! Must be a newfangled auto-adding thingy.
Helleofabore · 21/11/2022 16:58

beastlyslumber · 21/11/2022 16:57

Why should I back up my claims

Because that's what you need to do if you want people to take you seriously.

I suspect that they don't think that they need to be taken seriously.

howmanybicycles · 21/11/2022 16:58

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 14:36

It’s one thing to say we need safeguarding, and quite another for gender critical activists to claim there is “no such thing as a TW” that “it’s all a game of pretend” implying that all TW are predatory men…without exception.

Im not comfortable with the extremist views often aired on trans issues.

Show quote history

I've never seen anyone say that all TW are predatory. Saying there are no transwomen is a refusal to accept men into the category of woman. They are men who are trans identifying. Given the assaults on women's rights perpetuated when we pretend otherwise, i think it makes perfect sense to only accept adjectives before the word woman if they are not attempting to break all categorical boundaries.

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 16:57

Scyla · 21/11/2022 16:52

The MoJ can't count inmates who have not told prison staff they are transgender.

So men in the male estate then.

Nor does it count prisoners who have already been given a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC).”

Again men, who could be in either male or female.

So if you don’t know how many prisoners are transgender, how can you say 80% of transgender inmates are male or that 99% of transgender sex offenders are male?

Of the male prisoners that have told prison staff they're transgender, 40 percent are sex offenders*

If there are more men who are trans but keeping it secret and are NOT sex offenders then that 40 percent would go down if they could be counted.

The opposite is happening though and MORE male sex offenders are identifying as trans themselves. A higher proportion than in the non trans male population. So either way it's a way of getting a transfer to the female estate.

You literally cannot calculate it with any reliability.

True but that's not what's being illustrated.

Sorry but that is very weak. And there’s no way of know if it is actually more or less. A % of one unknown number compared to a % of another completely different unknown number cannot be directly compared.

As in 0.40x is not necessarily more or greater than or equal or less than 0.19y.

You need to know x and y. And to calculate likelihood or representation you need to go one step further and look at per capita of x and y.

But since MoJ says that “x” is a big fat unknown….

Helleofabore · 21/11/2022 16:57

Onnabugeisha · 21/11/2022 16:52

Please understand I am not playing your game. You like to send anyone you disagrees with you off on rabbit hunts. Yet you sit and spout and link stuff that doesn’t even support what you say. Why should I back up my claims when you don’t?

Show quote history

That is fine.

Readers will make up their own minds as they read along. We shall simply post what the courts decided and then some examples of the prominent trans people who then admitted on social media that they lied on the census.

There was a whole lot of falsehoods in your claim. But it is fine. That can be countered and readers can make up their own decisions.

beastlyslumber · 21/11/2022 16:57

Why should I back up my claims

Because that's what you need to do if you want people to take you seriously.

LaughingPriest · 21/11/2022 16:55

Why should I back up my claims?

Ok this pretty much says it all. Too soon to call Poe's Law?

Helleofabore · 21/11/2022 16:54

But it’s a % of a total number that the MoJ says cannot even be counted as the # of transgender prisoners is unknown.

They are not unknown.

It is has been tracked by women's groups. No matter how much you might like to attempt to discredit it, it has been done.

There is now data collected by the MoJ so, it won't be long before we should be able to have some better defined statistics.