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Original poster

Just despair - HOW do some women just not get it!

284 replies

Mynewchairhasarmrests · 21/11/2022 09:24

Just finished a brilliant novel written by a female author about friendships, girlhoo, womanhood, and growing up as a girl. She was so absolutely on the money about what it’s like to be a young woman and the pressures of looking and acting a certain way, the awful way women are so often treated by men, the way women are portrayed in the media, how we are programmed not to recognise sexual assault and told its just boys having fun, and how we aren’t believed even if we do report it. Her anger and passion really came through and it was good, though depressing, to read someone telling it exactly like it is.

You know what’s coming. I then look on her social media. She’s a TRA. Signed a letter condemning JKR for being ‘anti trans’. Condemns Germaine Greer for being so wrong on trans issues.

I just don’t understand how these women can see the misogyny everywhere they look BUT the place where it’s in its worst, purest form - gender ideology.

Its like a glitch in the coding somewhere. Why can’t they see it? I have another friend who is on the board of a rape charity. We had long conversations about how shit it can be to be a woman. The misogyny everywhere. I was sure she must be GC. But no. A TRA. Doesn’t speak to me now she knows I’m a TERF.

I just don’t get it. Is it fear of societal disapproval? A reluctance to admit the liberal progressive cause they publicly embraced is anything but and that they’ve been had?

OP posts:
Original poster
Mynewchairhasarmrests · 21/11/2022 10:10

That tweet from Andy Ngo is sickening. How can any of these ‘be kind TWAW’ feminists watch this and not get it? That this creep isn’t just a violent outlier? That there are many, many trans identified men like this, and that these feminists are actually fighting to make it easier for them to access women’s spaces?

’I think people who have seen for themselves the harm that violent or predatory men can inflict tend not to fall into the 'be kind' category’ - this has often been my experience. Some of the most wide eyed, you can pee next to me!, allies are hopelessly gullible and naive about how dangerous men can be.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mynewchairhasarmrests · 21/11/2022 10:06

The author was Holly Bourne. And I do really recommend her books.

I agree that there’s absolutely no excuse for anyone not to know, in 2022, that the trans movement is characterised by some of the most horrific misogyny I have ever seen in my life, and completely underpinned by deeply sexist notions of gender and how men and women ought to behave. If you have social media, and are awake to issues around women, girls and feminism you can’t possibly not know.

All these women who have made careers out of their brand of feminism like Caitlin Moran who REFUSE to comment on this, they think we haven’t noticed their silence and now that the masks are slipping and the wheels are coming off they’ll just say in a few years that they didn’t really know or understand what was going on.

No. Fuck off and take the word feminism out if your mouths, all of you. You fucking knew, and you chose to stand by and say nothing, practicing your safe, male approved brand feminism instead - because who doesn’t agree that rape is wrong and that women should have abortion rights? - and you let them do it to Julia instead and left the actual, brave, fearless feminists, like JKR and all the other amazing women who have spoken up, to take the death threats and the abuse and the cancellations and loss of income and standing at protests while the ‘women’ you’re so keen to stand up for stood spewing hatred and violence at them.

I have nothing but contempt for women who shill for men and dare to call themselves feminists.

OP posts:
LaughingPriest · 21/11/2022 10:03

I've wondered this over the years and after thoughtful consideration, my analysis is they're either lying or thick.

Seriously though, there is one person I've chatted to on here who has opened my eyes a bit to the point of view. It's that it doesn't really matter that much who is and isn't classed as a woman. It's semantics.
Practically speaking, men are going to rape and kill women whatever, so allowing a slightly higher risk - and the risk is always characterised as very, very, low and usually avoidable 'if a proper risk assessment is done' or 'the woman is alert to unusual behaviour and advises the proper channels' or 'is sensible and avoids risky situations' - is acceptable if it means trans people are validated overall.

I'm not saying this is this particular poster's actual view, I've paraphrased it to fit in with many comments by many people over the years.

I think people who have seen for themselves the harm that violent or predatory men can inflict tend not to fall into the 'be kind' category.

For me, the risks are obvious, but also, I think language should be clear and logic should be used in trying to reduce VAWG/ misogyny in general, so even if no-one was ever harmed by it, I would still find it important to have a definition of 'woman' that worked. And I think a lot of the 'not getting it' comes from the conflation of 'female' and 'feminine' (and 'male' and 'masculine') which is illogical and harmful.

Helleofabore · 21/11/2022 09:43

I think this latest tweet from Andy Ngo captures the misogyny that can never be covered over. And the homophobia and racism in this particular person. And apparently wrapped in an ‘uncancellable’ package at that.

twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1594430891123564544?s=46&t=Nrk2T6H-NlJFtSx-XFAbuw

AlisonDonut · 21/11/2022 09:39

They DO know. They just don't want the rape and death threats, have all their books and contracts cancelled and people phone up and deliver pizzas all the live long day.

RoyalCorgi · 21/11/2022 09:36

I don't understand it either. If you look at the barrister Charlotte Proudman's account on Twitter, she tweets endlessly about male violence against women, about the appalling way Amber Heard has been treated by the media, about the appallingly low rates of conviction for rape. Yet she is fully TWAW. She posted yesterday about how she stands with our trans brothers and sisters.

I can see why five years ago, women might not have got it. I realise that some women see trans women as a vulnerable group who are persecuted for not conforming to masculine stereotypes. But we've had five years of stories about male abusers using trans identities as a way to predate on women and girls. It couldn't be clearer that allowing men to self-identify as women and then to gain access to women's rape crisis centres, domestic abuse shelters and prisons has immensely harmful consequences for the most vulnerable women in society. How can she not see this?

NellyCat · 21/11/2022 09:31

Yeah, it's a cynical marketing strategy.

DuncanBiscuits · 21/11/2022 09:28

They just don’t want to be cancelled. They know really.

cempasuchil · 21/11/2022 09:28

I feel the same OP.

Who was the writer out of interest?