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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How can you be trans and non binary?

85 replies

catfunk · 20/11/2022 22:38

I noticed today a post from Indya Moore on Instagram about being trans (I had no idea they were trans just follow as I thought they were v beautiful/ enjoy their pics)

Indya described hormone therapy as 'gender affirming for them ' - no mention of sex/ surgery.
But they describe themselves as trans & non binary.

I don't quite understand why you'd need to 'transition genders' if you don't have a gender ? Am I being thick?

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/11/2022 11:11

Announcing to the world that you are 'non-binary' immediately sets up a binary.

This.

babyjellyfish · 22/11/2022 11:02

howmanybicycles · 22/11/2022 08:46

Then I find her assumptions about others insulting.

This.

You want me to respect your non-binary gender identity?

Sorry, no.

It is based on the idea that everyone else identifies with the regressive stereotypes society has chosen to apply to men and women, and that only YOU are special and different.

It also makes you seem illiterate and innumerate. Binary means there are two things. If you have created a third gender identity, there is no more binary. The moment you invented a gender identity other than "man" or "woman" the entire population of the world instantly became "non binary".

What would happen if absolutely everyone suddenly decided to identify as "non binary"?

We would be right back where we started: male people and female people, with personalities.

If your gender identity requires other people to stay in the regressive little boxes you have invented for them so that you can demonstrate your own specialness by being outside those boxes, you need to give your head a wobble.

HPFA · 22/11/2022 10:57

BatCheeseIsFine · 21/11/2022 08:37

wow what a lot of bigoted hatred you have inside.

justtellingthetruth it is not hatred to point out that something makes no sense or is untrue. It might be painful, but if gender ideologists don’t want people to point out inconsistencies and untruths, they don’t have to insist on them, and even worse insist other people accept them, in the first place.

please seek help and learn to foregive

Forgive what? Are you saying you agree that an ideology that tries to force people to believe and say things that aren’t true is actually doing something wrong?

I have no issue with people with dysphoria about their sex, any more than I have issues with people with other types of body dysmorphia, anorexia etc. I think they should get belt and treatment. I think most people who criticise gender ideology also have nothing against and do not “hate” people with dysphoria.

However it is normal to strongly dislike being told what to think when it goes against all sense and logic and evidence, and being bullied for having a protected and reasonable “belief”, I.e. an evidence-based understanding that humans can’t change sex and that many people are suffering from this ideology being adopted and pushed by the mainstream. Children and young people who identify as trans are among those who are being harmed and who we want to protect.

People being annoyed at being expected to believe nonsense doesn’t mean they hate trans people. A conflation and lie that is regularly used to shut us up and is then believed by others who haven’t thought it through.

think about it. Why exactly would left wing lesbians and feminists suddenly become hate-filled bigots? Can you explain?

@BatCheeseIsFine

This is brilliant - expresses how I feel exactly so spares me the bother of trying to write it.

I don't even have very strong feelings on some of the practical issues - toilets for instance - but resent very strongly being told I must be bigoted for not believing something nonsensical.

What makes it worse for me is I don't even think the people claiming to believe it actually do so. Their behaviour is not consistent with their professed beliefs ( if you really thought that gender and sex were separate why would you need to change your body to resemble the opposite sex?) and their refusal to defend their position is another signal.

Dontaskdontget · 22/11/2022 10:41

NoFlowersForEmily · 20/11/2022 22:57

You're not thick, but you are trying to make sense out of a wholly nonsensical ideology.
None of it makes sense.
None of it, don't waste you're time or brain power trying to understand how some people are trans because their innate gender (what is this? Nobody can tell us without resorting to sexist stereotypes) doesn't match their sex even tho they really are that sex and always have been, compared to some people who have no gender or can change gender by the day or be no gender at all while implying that to mean sex when we all have a sex and gender still means sexist stereotypes.
I read a good article about non binary women, it basically boils down to 'im not like those other girls'.
Maybe someone will share it..
But no I have no idea how you can be trans and non binary, trans relies on the binary because without it there would be no need to transition and there seems to be only the binary choice.
Non binary is basically a crock of shit and literally every human on earth is non binary in the sense that nobody conforms fully to masculine or feminine stereotypes.
My brain is fried even typing that out, I've no idea how these people live productive healthy lives in between all the navel gazing, sadly I doubt very many of them do.
Very tedious to be around I'm sure.

What @NoFlowersForEmily said.

Oblomov22 · 22/11/2022 10:39

It's all nonsense.

A MN'er posted the other day that more than 80%+ of trans retain their penis. Why? Why aren't they all wanting their penis removed ASAP?

WarriorN · 22/11/2022 10:30

Pokémon, avatars, indentities.... all the same.

Ds1 was avidly collecting football cards till this summer and has switched to Pokémon. When collecting football cards there were particular players he especially liked and is trying to emulate their hair styles.

It's pretty normal play, especially when kids admire celebs/ sports people, but with online gaming, avatars, trans humanism esque ideas it becomes all mushed up and voila: queer identikits, complete with flags and political aggression.

Luckily still v much into football over Pokémon.

ReunitedThorns · 22/11/2022 09:29

I've always wondered this, but youngsters today like to collect labels and identities like Pokemon cards.

There are a lot of heterosexual people who seem to have a long list of "queer" identities in their social media profiles.

MidEugh · 22/11/2022 09:23

COULDNT HUV PUT IT BETTER MASELF

Satire isn't dead I see...

howmanybicycles · 22/11/2022 08:46

G5000 · 22/11/2022 05:44

I believe everyone is NB except for a small number of people who have internalised some very old fashioned views.

Ah but the person I was talking about definitely does not think that. She/they think/s everyone else is binary and she/they are very special.

Then I find her assumptions about others insulting.

WarriorN · 22/11/2022 08:11

<snort>

How can you be trans and non binary?
G5000 · 22/11/2022 05:44

I believe everyone is NB except for a small number of people who have internalised some very old fashioned views.

Ah but the person I was talking about definitely does not think that. She/they think/s everyone else is binary and she/they are very special.

howmanybicycles · 22/11/2022 00:45

Wellies54 · 21/11/2022 19:38

I think testicles is too fetishy. I prefer the rubbing together and see what happens. Must be very exciting waiting to find out if a baby pops out of one of you - obviously impossible to tell which of you it could grow in - or both or neither.

Not quite clear which part it will pop out of either!

thirdfiddle · 21/11/2022 23:51

Could one think of non-binary as someone who just doesn't want their sex mentioned?

Scrap the woo, is that an idea that might work? It's less offensive than asking us to lie. I'm not sure it's always possible, but sometimes it might be, and it's understandable as a response to sexism, if mistaken I would say.

Baaaaaa · 21/11/2022 20:49

Justellingthetruth · 21/11/2022 07:22

@NoFlowersForEmily

wow what a lot of bigoted hatred you have inside.

the way you say all this speaks to issues you appear to what the world to see you have.

so reacting to the clues - please seek help and learn to foregive

good luck

The post by no flowers wasn't even slightly bigoted or hateful. Not sure what you are reading but it sure isnt the same post I just read. Accusing someone so lightly of "bigoted hatred" on the other hand seems pretty hateful to me. Dial it down.

Wellies54 · 21/11/2022 19:38

RealFeminist · 21/11/2022 18:17

WHEN A BIRTHING PERSON MEETS A TESTICULAR HAVER AND THE?Y LIKE EACH OTHER VERY MUCH THEY MAY DECIDE TO HAVE EGS AND SPERM BROUGHT TOGETHER EITHER IN THE BIRTHING PERSON THEYSELF OR USING A SUITABLY RECEPTACLED WOMB_CARRIER.

I think testicles is too fetishy. I prefer the rubbing together and see what happens. Must be very exciting waiting to find out if a baby pops out of one of you - obviously impossible to tell which of you it could grow in - or both or neither.

RealFeminist · 21/11/2022 18:56

SORRY I MADE A HATE CRIME ON ACCIDENT OF COURSE THE BIRTHING PERSON AND TESTICULAR HAVER DONT NEED TO LIKE EACH OTHER AND THE PERSON WHOS INNER FEELS ARE LIKE GI JOE-ISH NEED NOT HAVE TESTICULTAS BASICALLY ANY PEOPLE WHO WANT BABIES NEED TO JUST RUB UP AGAINST OTHER PEOPLE AND HOPE FIR THE BEST

MrsFButton · 21/11/2022 18:46

RealFeminist · 21/11/2022 18:17

WHEN A BIRTHING PERSON MEETS A TESTICULAR HAVER AND THE?Y LIKE EACH OTHER VERY MUCH THEY MAY DECIDE TO HAVE EGS AND SPERM BROUGHT TOGETHER EITHER IN THE BIRTHING PERSON THEYSELF OR USING A SUITABLY RECEPTACLED WOMB_CARRIER.

Aren't testicles genitalia?

LemonSwan · 21/11/2022 18:24

^underscore in woman_carrier not a typo 🤣

RealFeminist · 21/11/2022 18:17

Wellies54 · 21/11/2022 18:15

Please can a non binary person explain how babies are made? ( Without mentioning genitals, because of course it's only us gc types who are genital fetishists)

WHEN A BIRTHING PERSON MEETS A TESTICULAR HAVER AND THE?Y LIKE EACH OTHER VERY MUCH THEY MAY DECIDE TO HAVE EGS AND SPERM BROUGHT TOGETHER EITHER IN THE BIRTHING PERSON THEYSELF OR USING A SUITABLY RECEPTACLED WOMB_CARRIER.

Wellies54 · 21/11/2022 18:15

Please can a non binary person explain how babies are made? ( Without mentioning genitals, because of course it's only us gc types who are genital fetishists)

potniatheron · 21/11/2022 17:28

As I understand it, some people believe that NB falls under the trans umbrella. Some people however think it is an entirely different category to trans.

So I think it depends on how the person in question feels.

NurseBernard · 21/11/2022 17:27

Yes. Everyone is non-binary (except for trans people) when it comes to gender. So why do you need to identify as it?

howmanybicycles · 21/11/2022 17:05

G5000 · 21/11/2022 14:11

I have an acquaintance. A biological woman. Dresses like a woman. Has a feminine hairstyle. Wears make up. Has birthed children. But keeps posting on SM about being non-binary and uses pronouns she/they. I genuinely do not understand how this works. Says she/they do not identify as woman but I don't really go through life 'identifying' myself either. Everybody else has been able to guess without any issues though.
She/they have posted on SM that she/they have had both female and male experiences. I have known her/them for good quarter of a century and at no time has/have she/they acted and looked anything but stereotypical female. She/they is/are also asexual lesbian. I honestly think she/they need/s a hobby.

I do this. Not to be special. I'm dull. I believe everyone is NB except for a small number of people who have internalised some very old fashioned views. Also I'd be horrified if people thought I was that regressive in my thinking. Is hers a similar type of resistance?

FrancescaContini · 21/11/2022 16:53

LemonSwan · 21/11/2022 15:15

Cos words. When black is white and white is black. And black is black, and white is white. Then everything is everything and also nothing. So you may as well translate as syfjnebdgaiofnfbevshuikencbdgshj shdudjvbfhdjsjsnc dhfhgignendgsgdujfngfb dnchfhidjd ndhfhfjdjdn hdhfhfjrnendhsjk dhfhfidjndhfh gibihndhsgyffjn dhfhdjfjfnfjdjcn. Dhfhdjsj!

I think this is the most meaningful reply. Because it’s meaningless. Spot on.

ChocoStripe · 21/11/2022 16:42

Seeing as NB is fucking meaningless, you can attach that label to anything really.