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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to have an open discussion when there are people determined to shut it down?

31 replies

Believerinbiology · 19/11/2022 13:26

I'm sure many will recognised the many tactics for shutting down discussions on these boards e.g. the ploppers posting for screenshots or deletions, targeted mass reporting of particular posters who speak sense, derailing etc. I, like many here, don't generally report posts as prefer to leave posts stand for sunlight and so what was deleted cannot be misrepresented. I'm struggling with what is the best way to deal with derailers or those who superficially seem to be engaging in the discussion but actually are shutting it down. As one poster said when it becomes a back and forth between a couple of posters most will leave the discussion. If nobody refutes their points it can be spun that we agree/ don't have an argument against it/ are an echo chamber that won't engage with other viewpoints but if they are refuted the derailing back and forth occurs. What is the best way to handle this (other than screaming in frustration)?

OP posts:
Believerinbiology · 19/11/2022 17:37

Yup I have been muttering remember Bunbury a lot to myself lately while resisting posting, even went to get myself a drink but everybody was still off on summer holidays. It can be so hard to leave statements and misinformation stand without comment though.

OP posts:
LaughingPriest · 19/11/2022 17:28

In fact, I'll copy the OP for ease of keeping track....

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember our monitors would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3691023-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-4

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

LaughingPriest · 19/11/2022 17:27

I'm sometimes guilty of trying to get a straight answer to an extremely basic question from people that are just there to make noise rather than engage. (sorry).

We used to have a great guide to avoiding this - the problem is it sort of requires everyone in a thread to ignore them.

Best bet is to go back to the last few posts before the derail and quote/respond to those to get it back on track.
Or instead of @-ing or quoting the derailer directly, say 'some people claim that X which is incorrect because YZ' etc.

Doggedly responding to the actual OP rather than getting distracted is good. You can report repeated derailers as it's not in the spirit/not civil discussion to come onto a thread and drive everyone off it - if you explain in your post report that you don't want it deleted but that the poster is displaying a pattern of behaviour that is pretty much trolling, MNHQ are often sympathetic or at least on alert.

I recommend the OP and thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4164702-Bunbury-s-Eighth-Sealion-training-for-beginners

Believerinbiology · 19/11/2022 13:53

Yes there are certainly some posts who while I may read what is said I'll never engage with but there are some whose MO is a bit subtler until you see it across a few threads. The ones in particular I'm thinking of are those that start by seemingly engaging with the thread in good faith and so have drawn posters into a discussion but their posts gradually change over the course of the discussion twisting it to their own objective. Must sit on my hands more.

OP posts:
AutumnLeaves23 · 19/11/2022 13:39

Keep on point.

I think most derailers are not interested in debate at all, and best ignored. Don’t engage and keep what was the point of the thread.

Plasmodesmata · 19/11/2022 13:34

I've seen on here before that one way to deal is to just ignore the derailer and continue the discussion by quoting / engaging with another poster further back up the thread who is actually discussing what the thread's about.

Suggest they start their own thread to continue the deraily discussion there instead?

It's a shame when developments in a thread can get buried under pages of back-and-forth which isn't really what the original thread was about.

Swipe left for the next trending thread