Page 5 | Are they really this delusional? *trigger warning - thread mentions suicide*

Sonervousimgonnathrowup · 2022-11-18T08:45:06+00:00

I was reading this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/yvt4ru/how_should_men_respond_to_transphobic_feminists/ and I just couldn’t believe these people are serious! How can someon be this far gone? Where do they base their beliefs on?

Happylittlechicken · 18/11/2022 12:47

The ONS has some really good statistics on this very subject.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 12:46

suggestionsplease1 · 18/11/2022 12:43

...and again hahaha

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You want to talk sensibly? Do it

nilsmousehammer · 18/11/2022 12:45

Try the government collated statistics annually for homicide which break down population groups.

Onnabugeisha · 18/11/2022 12:44

beastlyslumber · 18/11/2022 12:33

That's not what anyone's said. People have explained the evidence to you.

It's just very clear. We have pretty good data on all of this. Not to say we can't improve it. But there's nothing to suggest that the evidence we currently have is way off base.

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Pretty good data that cannot be cited from any source reputable or otherwise.

suggestionsplease1 · 18/11/2022 12:43

Happylittlechicken · 18/11/2022 12:37

You’re a bit confused aren’t you @suggestionsplease1 do you need a cup of tea and a biscuit? Maybe a nice lay down. No one is denting trans identified people exist. We know they do. Like vegans. Are you suggesting that authorities and statisticians are listening to feminists when it comes to recording figures? You’re accusing them of dishonesty and collusion to obscure crime figures? Wow. Harsh.

...and again hahaha

Happylittlechicken · 18/11/2022 12:43

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 12:42

This poster hasn’t explained a single thing since they arrived though @LaughingPriest

just incoherent rudeness and anger

I think it’s a lack of selenium In their diet and not enough fresh air.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 12:43

suggestionsplease1 · 18/11/2022 12:41

Haha, loving this! Ad hominem case in point.

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Great, let’s talk about sex disaggregated data: good or bad

and you still owe us that list of gender identities that match ‘woman’

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 12:42

This poster hasn’t explained a single thing since they arrived though @LaughingPriest

just incoherent rudeness and anger

suggestionsplease1 · 18/11/2022 12:41

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 12:28

Have you considered getting out in the fresh air? You’ve not actually made a single point yet, but you seem ever so cross

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Haha, loving this! Ad hominem case in point.

LaughingPriest · 18/11/2022 12:39

^derail, not detail. Detail is often lacking.

LaughingPriest · 18/11/2022 12:39

Personally I don't care if someone is angry and sad, if they are willing to engage to explain their position.

They never are, though. Next it'll be an attempted detail about what FWR posters are like.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 12:38

Also I’m not sure you know what an ad hominem attack is

Happylittlechicken · 18/11/2022 12:37

You’re a bit confused aren’t you @suggestionsplease1 do you need a cup of tea and a biscuit? Maybe a nice lay down. No one is denting trans identified people exist. We know they do. Like vegans. Are you suggesting that authorities and statisticians are listening to feminists when it comes to recording figures? You’re accusing them of dishonesty and collusion to obscure crime figures? Wow. Harsh.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 12:37

Onnabugeisha · 18/11/2022 12:34

And bingo, an ad hominem.

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I like to think of it as helpful advice

you seem both angry and sad

LaughingPriest · 18/11/2022 12:36

suggestionsplease1 · 18/11/2022 12:08

GC feminists often seem to rate themselves on their supposed rationality and logic; there is a complete death of it on this issue.

Here is your chance then.
Trans is where someone's sex and gender doesn't align or match.

Please set out which genders match with each sex, so a person can identify whether theirs match.

We can start from there to learn the logical basis your view is based on.

nilsmousehammer · 18/11/2022 12:36

suggestionsplease1 · 18/11/2022 12:28

When some GC feminists are campaigning (and on these boards too) that there is no such thing as a trans person, how do you think this supports the collection and recording of data about crimes committed against trans people?

Is this maybe how the perfect logic goes...

"There is no such thing as a trans person"

ergo "There can be no crimes committed against, or murder of trans people"

Very well done, congratulations.

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Which is obviously not the case, as see the many threads about newspaper reports on crimes in the national press where it is stated whether the male or female person involved is also TQ+ identified. The census, bending over backwards and in very odd directions to ensure that everyone can put down every relevant identity they wish to.

Lack of visibility really is not a problem. There's a T day of remembrance for goodness sake, where names are read out and remembered - are the people organising this really managing to miss hundreds of UK TQ+ people?

Onnabugeisha · 18/11/2022 12:34

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 12:28

Have you considered getting out in the fresh air? You’ve not actually made a single point yet, but you seem ever so cross

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And bingo, an ad hominem.

beastlyslumber · 18/11/2022 12:33

suggestionsplease1 · 18/11/2022 12:28

When some GC feminists are campaigning (and on these boards too) that there is no such thing as a trans person, how do you think this supports the collection and recording of data about crimes committed against trans people?

Is this maybe how the perfect logic goes...

"There is no such thing as a trans person"

ergo "There can be no crimes committed against, or murder of trans people"

Very well done, congratulations.

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That's not what anyone's said. People have explained the evidence to you.

It's just very clear. We have pretty good data on all of this. Not to say we can't improve it. But there's nothing to suggest that the evidence we currently have is way off base.

Onnabugeisha · 18/11/2022 12:32

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 12:23

you find talking about tampons offensive?

interesting

i thought it was funny. Does any talk relating to menstruation offend you? 🩸 turns out it has an emoji!

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Interesting, so I cannot “talk about another thread” without getting my posts deleted even though another poster initiated “talk about another thread” and their post is left in situ, as is other posters who shall we say are of a common feather?

LaughingPriest · 18/11/2022 12:32

As demonstrated in another thread - unless we are talking about people who would've previously been described as "transsexual" - ie they want to be the opposite sex - there isn't really a consensus on how to define who is or isn't "trans" under the wide and nebulous umbrella, so that would need to be clarified before it could be measured.

If people (adults) want to be the opposite sex and take steps to be treated like they are, I have no issue with that in most situations. Taking a driving test, going to the pub, decorating a room, walking down the street, doesn't matter to me if they're a man or a woman.
It's the few where biological sex matters that we need to ensure we're not conflating sex and gender.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 12:28

Onnabugeisha · 18/11/2022 12:26

No relevance of course, this is what they do on MN at least. I’m sure there will be some ad hominems along soon.

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Have you considered getting out in the fresh air? You’ve not actually made a single point yet, but you seem ever so cross

suggestionsplease1 · 18/11/2022 12:28

Happylittlechicken · 18/11/2022 12:20

So if no one knows how many trans identified people are being killed or abused, as per @suggestionsplease1 , how can trans identified people be the most vulnerable and oppressed group ever? Either there are records showing more trans identified people are killed, abused and beaten than women or there are not. Anecdotal evidence does not count. Weren’t the suicide stats for trans identified teens debunked years ago, and also evidence found that transition dis not aid mental health?

When some GC feminists are campaigning (and on these boards too) that there is no such thing as a trans person, how do you think this supports the collection and recording of data about crimes committed against trans people?

Is this maybe how the perfect logic goes...

"There is no such thing as a trans person"

ergo "There can be no crimes committed against, or murder of trans people"

Very well done, congratulations.

Happylittlechicken · 18/11/2022 12:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Onnabugeisha · 18/11/2022 12:26

suggestionsplease1 · 18/11/2022 12:14

Relevance to the issue of recording and reporting stats on murder / suicide of trans people?

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No relevance of course, this is what they do on MN at least. I’m sure there will be some ad hominems along soon.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 18/11/2022 12:25

suggestionsplease1 · 18/11/2022 12:24

See 300 years ago, when it wasn't possible to carry out large, robust, well-designed studies on the rape and murder of women - do you think this means that the rape and murder of women did not happen?

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And do we think asking for people’s ‘gender’ in research but not their sex will help with this?

remind me who wants to stop gathering sex disaggregated data and who has gone to court to preserve it?