Is it okay to work with groups whose principles you dont share as a feminist, but there is a common cause?

This place is such an interesting phenomenon.

Absolutely, watching the frogs being boiled so slowly in here over the last few years has been an education.

You're here arguing that everyone on this board has the same views?

But the whole point of the thread is, is it okay to "work with" groups who you disagree with in order to further a common goal.

Please don't pretend that this is a discussion about going to such an event to beat down the anti women views that would be shared. I would not attend an event where my very attendance even could be seen as support for and platforming of such views. Nobody can justify prohibiting womens' choices over abortion and same sex marriage to me.

Say what you want, it is disingenuous to pretend that was the topic of the thread. I and other posters expressed that we would absolutely not in any way associate with these groups for those reasons. I have nothing more to say on the matter.

So dreamwhisper, you (wrongly) consider this to be an anti-trans board. By coming here to discuss issues, aren't you aligning yourself with the board, and therefore giving support to what you call 'anti trans' views?

That's your argument about women attending the proposed event. So does it also apply to you? You've allied yourself to us by being here.

It just becomes a circle of people with the same views reinforcing each others' opinions

The irony

If an event is organised to discuss issues, especially issues where there is strong disagreement, how the fuck is it going to actually achieve anything useful if it deliberately excludes certain views or groups?

A conference to 'discuss' education if it refuses certain people entry based on their views or politics isn't really a conference, is it? It just becomes a circle of people with the same views reinforcing each others' opinions.

Well that's just pathetic. If you can't back up your points with reason, logic or evidence, then all you're doing is wailing like this, and it's honestly a waste of everyone's time.

Discussing ideas, or attending an event about those ideas, is not the same as aligning yourself with those ideas.

But in this case, the event is about education, which lots of people have an interest in. Is it aligning yourself with a particular group to discuss education? Does that mean that all mothers are aligned with the Family Party because we are all interested in talking about education?

If you want to add your voice to the chorus of pro life organisations, or anti same sex marriage advocates, then you do you. I will not under any circumstances be joining you.

So no audience with the Pope for you.

Ah here it is, the "I don't understaaaaaaaand".

Stop with the bullshit whataboutery. This event is directly about political ideas that go against every principle of womens' rights. It's not a bake sale with some Christian pro lifers attending.

What do you mean? What 'anti trans' stuff are you talking about? Please give some examples because you're not really making any sense.

'align' and 'ally' are doing lots of heavy lifting, here. It's purity politics, again.

Only on the MN boards where anti trans ideology is the only issue feminism concerns itself with would anyone EVER be arguing that it's alright to in any way associate with people who are so actively anti womens rights.

It honestly makes my mind boggle. This place is such an interesting phenomenon.

Freedom of speech is an ideal; and the reality is some groups do not share that ideal and see your commitment to ideals as a weakness to use against you. The threat from groups with an extremist ideology is real and ongoing. It would be a mistake to lump them in with organisations such as the Catholic church.

"When the axe came into the woods, many of the trees said, "At least the handle is one of us'"
''There will always be groups that will take advantage of a NSP that is focused on 'handles' instead of 'axe heads'.
Once the axe head is forged it can be attached to one of many handles...refitted over and over again.''
www.linkedin.com/pulse/when-axe-came-forest-trees-said-dont-worrythe-handle-jon

There is a wealth of difference between being friends or colleagues with people of different belief systems, i.e. tolerance, and actively standing up and supporting those views too.

The latter will extend to being seen to support and attend events where those views are being advocated.

Why will it? That's not what 'support' means.

If you go to a Catholic church for a wedding, are you supporting anti-abortion views? What about if you go to the church hall for a zumba class? How about if you go for a discussion about abortion?

Discussing ideas and attending events is not "actively standing up and supporting" the views of the organisers. Surely you see that's a ridiculous statement.

A mature democracy should be able to handle a diverse range of views, even ones that people might find offensive

Yes this is a lovely high school politics sentiment but it's not what is at play here. There is nuance to politics and social issue. It's not about "handling" or tolerating views one doesn't agree with, the question is, is it right to stand with people in a political and social context who are actively advocating issues you find completely against your own views, in order to further your plight on one specific issue that you do have common views on?

People saying actually no, I would not be okay with that, it's morally corrupt, and the context in which my views exist and who they are shared with is important, are not simply "intolerant". It's not about this nice we should all get along and be listened to idea. Attending these events in solidarity adds to the voice of those organisations.

If you want to add your voice to the chorus of pro life organisations, or anti same sex marriage advocates, then you do you. I will not under any circumstances be joining you.

How have they suddenly become 'allies' rather than people discussing/debating ideas?

Do you think you automatically become aligned to anyone you talk to? Doesn't that mean they also become aligned to you? So you must cancel each other out, surely?

What do you mean by 'anti trans hate'? Please give some examples with links, as I don't know what you mean.

Quote from a movie…
^^
”America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight.
^^
It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.
^^
You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest.
^^
Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.“

No it doesn't!

Stop obfuscating. There is a wealth of difference between being friends or colleagues with people of different belief systems, i.e. tolerance, and actively standing up and supporting those views too.

The latter will extend to being seen to support and attend events where those views are being advocated.

It's not rocket science. Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole because you want to big up anyone else who agrees with anti transgender sentiments.

If you support the Family Party etc, just own it.

I am not getting muddled, what you have written is literally what I said.

My post was in response to a poster telling the OP that unless she supported those people on their issues, then she's not really into free speech.

This is not true.

I’ve said this before and always been told no… but surely looking at the line up of people who agree with you must sew a seed of doubt in where the drive to push all this anti trans hate comes from?

Feminists aligning themselves with anti abortionists?
Lesbians siding with Anti-equal marriage campaigners?

If I was looking around me and seeing those types as my allies I would want to have a good long think and reassess of my opinions

I'm all for free speech, but I'd be worried that I'd be attending some sort of evangelical event to attempt to educate me out of my bad free-thinking ways.

And what if you were? I'm sure you're more mentally robust than you realise and can walk out of an event that doesn't interest you. Even if you had to sit and listen to it for a couple of hours, you'd still walk out fine and unchanged. The world won't fall apart.

This.

When people say that speech should have consequences, you have to ask what kind of consequences they mean. If they mean more speech - people disagreeing, protesting, even mocking and satirising your speech - that's fine. If they mean anything else, it's fascist.

Agreed.