Is it okay to work with groups whose principles you dont share as a feminist, but there is a common cause?

And yes I am intolerant of religious beliefs that hurt others in the same way that I’m intolerant of the aspects of self ID that hurt others.

@EndlessTea do point out where I said I wasn’t comfortable listening to feminists? I’m intrigued.

I care very much that vulnerable people are being used and harmed in the services of an ideology. I appreciate that many people who believe themselves trans disagree with my views, but I would fight for their rights to proper, evidence-based healthcare and freedom from discrimination, just as I'd fight for women's rights.

'against trans people' - what utter nonsense.

you have absolutely forsaken feminism for transphobia

If a person doesn’t recognise the notion of ‘trans’

(ie- they acknowledge some people wear the clothes and styling associated with the opposite sex, some others have medical interventions to make their bodies and/or faces mimic the opposite sex and some adopt mannerism and stereotyped behaviours associated with the opposite sex, but they don’t believe such people need to have a new name or human category associated with them, because they are still exactly the same person they were before, just that they are wearing different clothes or had some surgery or messed about with their endocrine system.)

how can that person be transphobic?

We already have words like butch and femme, or gender non-conforming, to describe the phenomenon of people who engage in these stylings and body morphications. Why do we need a new word?

100%.

Glad to have all these allies here on this thread in complete accord with my views, thank you to each and every poster all for the support.

I‘m all for free speech, but - seriously - how long can one discuss, whether it is ok to do the single one thing (Building broad Alliance) that gives you a chance to actually bring about change and make the world a better place for women?!?

Are you actually serious? The woman saying she's not comfortable attending events to hear views from anti abortion and anti same sex marriage groups is the anti-feminist?

She’s not comfortable listening to feminists either, and she is coming along to throw shade on those feminists, with the intent of undermining the event and the efforts of those feminists.

What do you call that?

It absolutely does matter in this world who you choose to agree with and care about in political and social issues.

I thought the issue was 'work with'? Or 'attend an event with'.

Now you're saying 'agree with' and 'care about'.

You're moving the goalposts. It makes it very difficult to actually get anywhere in a discussion. I say, I'd go to this event, and you say oh so you agree with X then? I say I'd consider working with X, you say oh so that's who you care about.

As previously explained, going to an event, listening to a speaker, or even sharing a platform with them, does not imply agreement, alignment, support or 'care'. If it did, then they would also be aligned and agreeing with you, and nobody ever thinks that will be the case.

”rejecting any association with literal anti abortion and anti gay marriage advocates”

“I did myself feel that was more the bare minimum of being a feminist or even woman who wanted to retain her rights”

Well, I disagree.
Firstly, because you are being illogical because gay rights and women’s rights are not the same thing.
Secondly, some people are anti-abortion, and I respectfully disagree with them if they are absolutist about it, but I can see their point.
Doesn’t make me less of a feminist.

I have worked, sometimes unknowingly, with people who are anti-abortion, and it might comes as a surprise to me, but I really don’t think my colleagues private beliefs are any of my business. It’s not like they are getting me to pay for their placards to stand outside abortion clinics is it? If the work we are doing is nothing to do with abortion, why should I reject any association with them? People are varied and complex.

Your argument Dreamwhisper comes across as crude and ham-fisted to me, as though you don’t regularly re-examine your beliefs. Perhaps it helps you to believe your are unequivocally right about things.

But it has confirmed my growing suspicion that while it is possible to be GC without being transphobic, that is definitely not what's going on here.

You have demonstrated that you have absolutely forsaken feminism for transphobia. It absolutely does matter in this world who you choose to agree with and care about in political and social issues. If you have gotten to a point where you're happy to go along with such definitively antifeminist people because they're also against trans people... Well if it were me, I'd be doing some serious self reflection.

My above reply was in response to @beastlyslumber slumbers reply.
Although I lurk on these boards, I haven’t signed in for months and clearly forgotten how to quote or reply to other messages.

Are you actually serious? The woman saying she's not comfortable attending events to hear views from anti abortion and anti same sex marriage groups is the anti-feminist?

Please take a look at yourself. You are spouting absolute nonsense and you're going to do yourself some serious bodily harm with those mental gymnastics 😂

😂 It really is pathetic.
I don’t think anyone is “anti- trans.”
Wanting to protect the rights, safety, dignity and privacy of women and girls (i.e females) is not anti anything. Grow up.

you're fooling yourself if you believe that your contributing to this board can't be interpreted as support and alignment by the very same logic you use

It is so true. There seems to be a well-trodden path for TAs and anti-feminists to try to undermine women’s efforts.

This deliberate fudging of the meanings of “be seen with”, “work with”, “be in the same location as”, “fund”, “mention”, “not openly denounce”, “support”, “converse with”, “listen to”, “be polite towards”, “follow the directives of”, “be discussed in the same sentence as”, “adopt the policies of”, “appear in a photograph with”, etc.

It is scaremongering to get us treading on eggshells. Oooh…. Scary, scary…. Didn’t you know you are doing something forbidden? ☠️Ooo… unless you openly denounce that person, organisation, thing, everyone will think you are completely intertwined with them and it will follow you around for ever more… ooo👻

I will, I am proud of rejecting any association with literal anti abortion and anti gay marriage advocates, thanks.

I did myself feel that was more the bare minimum of being a feminist or even woman who wanted to retain her rights but I guess not these days?

Why don't you define it?

If you're saying it's okay to align yourself in any way with groups like these, how about you explain why it's okay to you?

I've already outlined my views about why I wouldn't want to associate in any way and explained clearly that I feel association extends to attending these events. if you don't agree, why don't you explain yourself?

I think you're fooling yourself if you believe that your contributing to this board can't be interpreted as support and alignment by the very same logic you use to decry women attending the event raised in the OP.

I would attend the event, yes.

Would I 'work with' any of the groups involved? Depends very much on what the work involved and whether I thought I had an effective contribution to make.

That's literally not relevant is it? Please don't derail the thread. There are 10,000 threads on FWR about what "trans" is.

And again, the point of the thread was "would you work with these groups". Categorically no should be any feminists answer, surely?

Define “work with”.

Absolutely not the case at all. I find it ironic you would think that since there is so much bad faith on this thread, at complete odds with what it is actually about.

I am signed up to a large parenting forum, of which one aspect is the FWR board. I have a proven track record of my beliefs on here, which is very clear and in fact the only way to see my involvement with these threads. I have no real life association with mumsnet's FWR board and as said, if anyone did want to know about my presence, the only way you would be able to do this is to collate my posts and see what they say.

My body being in that hall attending that event is in no way an indication of how I think or feel. I could be there supporting, and anyone looking at any data wouldn't be able to know what I was doing there.

And again, the point of the thread was "would you work with these groups". Categorically no should be any feminists answer, surely?

I and other posters expressed that we would absolutely not in any way associate with these groups for those reasons.

Good for you. Give yourself a pat on the back.

I would not attend an event where my very attendance even could be seen as support for and platforming of such views.

Your attendance here could easily be seen as support for and platforming of gender critical views. And yet you're here. Which tells me on some level you know your argument is specious.

Regardless, it's your choice where you go and who you speak to. If other women make a different choice, it's none of your business. I'd be happy to go to this event and hear what everyone has to say. It sounds really interesting.

It just becomes a circle of people with the same views reinforcing each others' opinions

@Dreamwhisper What is the definition of 'trans', and why should trans rights supersede safeguarding, or women's sex based rights?

It looks as though it is organised by a range of groups, not one group.

I probably wouldn’t, say, attend an event organised by Mermaids, for example, even if they had someone from a GC perspective on the panel - I would presume it was a stitch-up.

However, if I saw an event organised by groups working together including Mermaids and others I trusted like FWS, etc and it was chaired by someone I believed to be fair and balanced - I’d go along. Sure, I’d think (weird?), but I would imagine there was a good intention to be cooperative and solution-focussed.

I find your position very intolerant MyLovelyPen of others’ religious beliefs.