Is it okay to work with groups whose principles you dont share as a feminist, but there is a common cause?

@IwantToRetire Politically diverse groups (e.g. labour/tory, republicans/democrats, left/right) came together on those issues. That's why I cited them.

an issue where diverse communities oppose/support the same thing but for very different reasons.

They had different reasons for wanting the same thing. Some people supported women's suffrage because they were on the left and saw it as social justice. Others because they were more conservative and saw it as a means of preserving social power. Etc etc.

surely looking at the line up of people who agree with you must sew a seed of doubt in where the drive to push all this anti trans hate comes from?

But you’re not a feminist, are you, Someposter? You’re devoted to the cause of extending male rights by breaking women’s boundaries. You cannot get your head around the concept of women defending their rights, or perhaps even of women having any rights to defend. That’s why you can only describe it in terms of its effects on men, or as anti trans hate.

And if that’s beyond your capabilities, it probably is pointless even to raise the concept of free speech. Of disliking someone’s opinions but defending their right to express them, because that right is an essential pillar of democracy.

But maybe you can understand that an anti-abortionist and I (pro-choice) may share an opinion on something else, say women’s right to single- sex spaces, without changing our views on abortion? I remain a socialist despite the left having recently become hypnotised by genderism.

I don’t hold my opinions because someone else told me to, or because I would be bullied by my peer group if I failed to agree with them. I hold them as a result of my life experience, and of learning from honest and knowledgeable sources.

So to me, the only sad thing about having so few strong socialist voices speaking up for women is that the left has abandoned any pretence of supporting equal rights.

The sponsors:

The Battle of Ideas

'The aim of the Battle of Ideas festival and events is to provide an opportunity to debate the issues in a full and frank manner, bringing together a wide variety of voices and, most importantly, creating a space for everyone to have their say.'

The Christian Institute

'exists for the furtherance and promotion of the Christian religion in the United Kingdom and elsewhere.

The Christian Institute is a nondenominational Christian charity committed to upholding the truths of the Bible. We are supported by individuals and churches throughout the UK.

We believe that the Bible is the supreme authority for all of life and we hold to the inerrancy of Scripture. We are committed to upholding the sanctity of life from conception.'

Academics for Academic Freedom:

'Academics For Academic Freedom (AFAF) was founded in 2006 as a campaigning group for all lecturers, academic-related staff, students and researchers who wanted to defend unimpeded enquiry and expression. It began with a statement of Academic Freedom that lecturers, and others, could sign but has since taken up the case for free speech and academic freedom throughout the UK and Ireland. AFAF is also heavily involved in case work much of which never hits the headlines.'

Stand By Me:

'We are a group of concerned parents, carers and teaching staff from across Scotland, campaigning peacefully to promote, protect and restore the human rights and wellbeing of our children in the face of ongoing Covid restrictions in Scottish schools.
We are especially concerned about compulsory face masks in secondary school classrooms, with children expected to wear them for up to six hours a day. We believe the potentially negative impacts on learning, teaching and children’s health and wellbeing have been downplayed by the Scottish Government.'

For Women Scotland.

'For Women Scotland is a grassroots women’s group founded in June 2018 amid growing unease about how women’s rights would be affected by the Scottish Government’s plans to reform the Gender Recognition Act to allow for self-declaration of sex.'

Of course it is!!! How on earth does anyone learn anything by simply standing in an echo chamber?

Absolutely, I haven't articulated that on my posts but this is the whole issue with aligning with people or groups who are openly conservative. They want to fight trans rights because they hate trans people, not because they care about women.

They are more than happy to organise against self ID, and in the same breath support the 6 week abortion bill or total abortion ban.

I genuinely don't understand people who say that the context of these peoples' beliefs is not important. To say it means nothing that this event has been cancelled due to LGBTQ staff concerns and only picked up by a homophobic evangelical church known for their similarly restrictive and misogynistic views of women just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

I've thought about this a lot recently. To me the whole sex/gender/trans thing is about women's human rights, so I have no problem aligning myself with groups/individuals whose views I may otherwise disagree with, but where we have the common ground of supporting women's human rights. So not a Tory, but very happy to work with people who are on this issue, for example.

But following that line of thought, I draw the line at individuals/groups who would deny women their human rights in other ways, eg denying access to abortion. They are pushing an agenda that is essentially anti-women and - whilst our views on sex and gender may align - their stance on it does not come from a place of viewing women as equals or actually caring about women's human rights.

I dont have the historical political knowledge to think of other examples but there may well be instance where this type of working alliances have worked. eg abortion rights was a Liberal Party campaign wan't it?

Votes for women
Gay marriage
Civil rights in the US

to name a few.

Are you saying that the sponsors are not of various backgrounds and political inclinations?

Just a reminder of who the sponsors are:

The Battle of Ideas, The Christian Institute, Academics for Academic Freedom, Stand By Me (Scotland) and For Women Scotland.

Haven't we? You've said a few times you'd go to church for e.g. a toddler's group. And the different sponsors are clearly listed, so that's established without any need for your opinion.

So what's your objection to the event?

Right, but you also are avoiding my qustion. What is 'anti feminist and homophobic' in the conference, please?

Lol, no, we have definitely not established either of those things.

Dream, that's ok, I wasn't really asking for permission. Its a thought experiment.
Wondering why it seems to be always people who have failed to make any traction on the left who are scrutinising other people's choices.
Do you think it would be ok to speak at a Labour conference? I am personally not ok with misogyny and antisemitism, but I wouldn't stop anyone else from trying to make them see sense.
If we had all taken this stance and avoided right wing media, even if it was the only place that this issue was being covered, we wouldn't have got very far, would we?

Okay. We've established it's okay to use a venue despite not necessarily sharing views of said venue.

And that the sponsors are of various backgrounds and political inclinations.

So now we're down to the content.

What in the event is 'anti feminist and homophobic', please?

Are you on the wrong thread? This isn't about Julie Bindel and Milo.

👏👏👏

So FWS are anti feminist? Receipts please

The event is directly about anti-feminist and homophobic views? Receipts please

It's "ookayyy" to share your views with anyone you like mate, it's all about our own personal beliefs and boundaries.

But people will connect the dots between who and what you choose to take political and social interest in. So stand by people and ideas that you are morally okay with supporting. Just because I'm not okay with homophobic misogynistic hard conservative groups clearly doesn't mean everyone is.

Have some conviction in your own beliefs, if you believe it you don't need someone to tell you it's "okay"?

I'm absolutely not in bad faith, Dreamwhisper.

I'm trying quite hard to understand your argument.

It's okay for a group to meet in a church, despite not sharing same views/beliefs as said church, yes? (Toddlers' group).

But why is it not then okay for a group to meet in a church, despite not sharing same views/beliefs as said church (education conference)?

So now it's not the sponsors who are the problem, but the venue?

But earlier in the thread you said of course you'd be willing to go along to a church venue to do something unrelated to the church. You implied I was an idiot for even raising the question and claimed it was totally unrelated to the matter at hand. So what's changed, dreamwhisper?

My feminism does not include listening to homophobic anti-abortion rhetoric no. I would not share a platform with those who considered me an abomination. I honestly can't see the perspective of those who think we should.

Lie down with dogs, you'll get fleas.

Are you taking the mickey??? How can you not see that a "conference" around hot topics sponsored and held by people with anti feminist and homophobic views, directly about said anti feminist and homophobic views, is ANYTHING like a church toddler group? A "conference" that was deemed offensive enough to be cancelled and only went ahead because a homophobic branch of an evangelical church picked it up!

There's literally no point in saying anything to you or listening to anything from you if you are engaging in such glaringly bad faith.

Can someone provide a list of examples of who is it ok to share a platform with? Just interested to see if I agree?
Labour Party? Lib Dems? Torys? Greens? Amnesty?

If FWS' aim is a group to support women's rights, but they meet in a church with views they don't agree with, how is that any bit different than said toddlers' group meeting in the same church?