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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I’m totally at a loss what to say or do.

31 replies

LostGCMum · 14/11/2022 14:57

Sorry this is going to be long.
I’m very GC in that biology cannot be denied and that you cannot change sex by wishing it or even having medical treatment.
i don’t often put my head above the parapet but I have on occasion when I felt I had to, but it’s not an issue I think about on a daily basis.
I’m getting older and was a young adult at college in the 80’s when men wore “womens” clothes and vice versa and no one cared who you slept with. I knew people who cross-dressed ( as it was called then) and again no one cared. I had gay friends and still do in fact so I don’t think I am some sort of bigoted dinosaur who needs to move with the times, maybe I’m deluding myself?
Now my dilemma is my son in his 30’s has said to me that he wants to transition to a woman and he has been thinking seriously about it for about a year. Years ago he told us he was gay, okay not a surprise , then he said he was pan sexual so interested in the person not their sex, fine not an issue even though he wasn’t actually having any relationships, then he had a trans m t f partner who he met online. We were supportive used her name and female pronouns and were welcoming and saw them regularly as a couple. She knew I was GC so we didn’t really address the issue, but I remember saying to my son that it was easier for us to accept her, rather than her family, they are somewhat estranged.
My son and his partner have split up now.
I worry I am going to lose my son over this ( he has not asked us as yet to use a female name or pronoun).
i don’t believe that he does actually want to be a woman he has a history of mental health issues and has neglected a physical problem to the point he is almost disabled by it. He lives his life on-line playing fantasy games, works from home and has no actual interaction with people apart from us. He in no way tries to look feminine and would definitely attract looks if he wore a dress or similar. He’s going to want our support with this how can I say to him that I will never think of him as a woman, even if we use his chosen name and pronoun. Of course his on-line friends tell him he’s brave and cute.

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Crouton19 · 15/11/2022 00:27

@LostGCMum this sounds very similar to a situation with a male family member of mine also in his 30s (closer to 40 in fact). His mum could have written your post.

It is unlikely your son is getting a full picture of the realities of transition, but you can find these things out and make him aware. It sounds like you have significant doubts that this is the right path for him and if you don’t mention this, no-one will. Sorry if that sounds dramatic but as you know from living in Scotland, it can be difficult to find unbiased counsellors/therapists and those with the best of intentions to help might not be what he needs.

There are an increasing number of male detransitioners speaking out and talking both of acceptance of their sex and regret at medical interventions, and many also talk of being a vulnerable adult with even fewer checks than for teens before starting on the medical route. If you are on Twitter, look out for TullipR, ShifterofShapes and others, many of whom are now popping up on podcasts, doing talks and writing blogs about their experiences. Watch the Regretters documentary on Netflix/YouTube - it’s two men who used to identify as women and have had surgery talking through their reasons for doing it and how they feel about it decades later.

Don’t rely on NHS waiting lists to buy you time. He could go private, order hormones online, bypass the NHS to a large extent, very quickly.

If you are able to get suitable counselling for him, self-esteem should be a priority. Some transitioners have talked of the attraction of a fresh start at life as someone new and that is probably appealing to most of us at some stage. But it isn’t possible to escape who we are and any pre-existing issues will likely follow him to his new life.

I hope you have a support network for yourself, a couple of people you can confide in. Don’t expect anything to change quickly and remind him he is loved but that you are allowed to be concerned about him and exploring this fully together would help you as well as him.

sending big hugs

WallaceinAnderland · 14/11/2022 19:06

How long ago did his relationship break up and was it his decision. It could be that this is what his ex wants him to do and he is hoping to get back with them.

I think you need a lot more information from him. It sounds like he's taking it as a casual thing as so many do these days but if he wants your support, I expect you would need to know whether he is serious or whether this is just a passing whim.

nilsmousehammer · 14/11/2022 16:38

What Arabella says. Step one, oxygen mask on you.

It can be helpful to go back to the old idea of the three cs when someone you love is wrestling with mh: you didn't cause it, you can't change it and you can't control it. Mentally stepping back matters, as all you can really be is a safe place of calm, stability and support - and the support is for him, that doesn't mean the support is for the idea that currently feels to him like a way forward or a way out of distress and may or may not be right for him or long term. Try encouragement to talk to services and see what they offer, and encourage or help information on a wide range instead of the narrow ones he's likely to have frequently suggested may help, but the important thing is looking after you and keeping yourself stable and not on the rollercoaster with him.

TinFoilHatty · 14/11/2022 16:37

You are not a bad parent, far from it. I am inclined to say I would make soothing noises, and let him get on with it; you know your son well, you know he is reticent to engage with professionals.

Transitioning does not need to involve any form of body modification, no meds/hormones or surgery are required (this info is for the lurkers and readers)

stealtheatingtunnocks · 14/11/2022 16:33

the good thing about gender clinics in Scotland is the waiting list is currently about 4 years.

the really good thing is that he told you, so you know he trusts you.

the bad thing about that is that people seek support online and affirm each other.

id be asking his GP to organise a review at his psychiatrist to rule out other causes of his gender distress. Gender clinic won’t do that.

watch for him buying hormones online and ask him about where he is getting his information from. Try directing him to the counter points - but be careful about yourself, too. This will probably be hard, make sure you have support.

here is barracker’s essay about pronouns
Pronouns are rohypnol

LaughingPriest · 14/11/2022 16:32

Does he actually want to change his body because he believes that woman=female, or does he believe that you can be a woman no matter what you/your body looks like?

I know when he says 'wants to transition to a woman' that sounds to most people like he means adopting female physical characteristics but if he is fully immersed in gender ideology that view might actually seem old-fashioned.

ArabellaScott · 14/11/2022 16:30

I strongly suggest that you look into some help for yourself as a priority. What do you have in place to ensure that you look after your own health and wellbeing? To a certain extent, you have to let your adult child make their own mistakes. I can understand that it must be very hard, but it's also important to have strong boundaries, and to recognise that beyond a certain point, your son is responsible for himself and his own life choices.

LostGCMum · 14/11/2022 16:22

Gosh thanks for all the thoughtful comments, I thought I was going to get flammed as a bad parent, there are a lot of helpful suggestions that I am going to think through. I’m definitely going to research any links from his mental health issues to the desire to transition.
I agree with everyone who has said that he needs help with his mental health issues rather than hormones. I wish that as his mum I could just march him to the GP and insist on some help for him ( like I could when he was a child) . We could fund some private therapy if necessary but I wouldn’t know where to start to find the appropriate help and tbh I don’t know if my son would go if it wasn’t about transitioning.
We are in Scotland and I worry that soon it’s going to be enough to say you are a woman and voila you are.

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ArabellaScott · 14/11/2022 16:19

OP, this sounds so hard. Have you got some support in place for yourself? There's so much here to process, it sounds like it's been a difficult relationship for a very long time. You won't be able to help or support your son unless you are taking care of yourself - put your oxygen mask on first, as the saying goes.

Have you had any counselling, therapy, to help you navigate your own feelings around all of this?

pattihews · 14/11/2022 16:19

Yes, how about starting a conversation about what he thinks he's going to gain from 'becoming' a woman and keeping that conversation going? The very first TW I knew (I knew him before he transitioned) had the idea that life was easier for women because they had husbands who looked after them, they could retire at 60 (ah, remember the old days?)
Does your son think like will be easier if he self-IDs as a woman?

It occurs to me that if he finds going out and socialising etc a problem now, things are going to be even more complicated for him after transitioning. There's a lot of evidence that transitioning doesn't make an awful lot of people any happier: mental health outcomes don't automatically improve. What was his relationship with his TW girlfriend like? What ideas did that individual give him?

I don't agree with all those people who are saying he's your son and you have to support him no matter what. I think there comes a time for many parents with children with MH issues when the healthiest thing for all concerned is to step back.

WaveyHair · 14/11/2022 16:05

I suspect he wants to do anything to be accepted. His last meaningful relationship was with a m to f trans so he wants to repeat that.

GP who is going to refer him to gender services

This for me is disappointing. Surely with your sons background in mental health he could get counselling first before approaching gender services.

Good luck but really think your son will be better off getting proper help for his mh, not gender issues.

picklemewalnuts · 14/11/2022 16:05

I think as well that I'd encourage him to wait a while before doing things that can't be undone. I don't think that sounds like a rejection or a hard line, just a sensible 'look son, before you do anything final, take a little time to think.'.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 14/11/2022 15:59

What does he think living as a woman will mean for him? I would keep my reaction low key and encourage him to get support for his mental and physical health. Would any reputable doctor, in the current climate, be prepared to consider someone with unaddressed physical and mental health problems for transition.
Do you think he is serious given his history of compulsive lying or is there any other reason why he might say this?

MangyInseam · 14/11/2022 15:54

And I'd just note, there is I believe a significant cross-over with this kind of thing and BPD. There might be some material available on it that could be helpful.

WallaceinAnderland · 14/11/2022 15:54

Because of his age, there is nothing you can do about him transitioning OP, if that is what he wants. But there is a long way to go yet and if he has been thinking about it for a year, I am surprised that he hasn't already changed him name at the very least.

All the GP will do is put him on a waiting list for a gender clinic, if appropriate. There is a long wait so he may decide to get medication online which would obviously not be a good idea but most do.

But what I would want to know is what he thinks the outcome will be. What, in his mind, will it all look like.

Is he going to dress differently for example.

MangyInseam · 14/11/2022 15:52

I think the approach I would take with this is that he is clearly suffering from some significant mh issues, and that is what this is about. Tbh I might not be totally sure about the sexuality element either at this point either, as it could be part of a larger issue around online activities and isolation.

All that being the case, I would not be willing to comply with requests about pronouns and names and all the rest, because to me that would be feeding into a serious medical crisis, just as I wouldn't with a child dealing with anorexia, delusions of some kind, etc. I don't think that would be an acceptable response as a parent in this situation.

I'd explain all of this, and it is possible it would cause a break if he wouldn't accept it. But I think ultimately feeding into an illness like this is likely to be more damaging. He needs some reality that is constant.

WallaceinAnderland · 14/11/2022 15:50

Of course OP's views matter. She is human too.

TumbleFryer · 14/11/2022 15:49

He needs therapy, not hormones.

LostGCMum · 14/11/2022 15:48

Thanks for all the replies, to answer a few questions he has lived in his own place since he was 17, unfortunately we had to ask him to leave home because of the consequences of the compulsive lying. He was in supported accommodation to start with but lied extensively to them as well. He didn’t pass college exams for a course well below his ability, partly because of lies, he’s actually very intelligent and is actually for the most part an extremely caring nice person you would like him if you met him. I don’t think he has Autism although if course I’m not an expert I have seen it in friends children and have volunteered with children who do have a diagnosis.
We partially supported him financially for many years fist when he lost his college funding and when he didn’t work for many years and we still do but to a much lower extent.

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maddy68 · 14/11/2022 15:40

Whatever he is your child. Give him support and love your views do not matter

LostGCMum · 14/11/2022 15:37

He was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder as a teenager we took him to the GP and he was referred to a young persons mental health unit. We did a family session then he saw a mental health nurse but they discharged him after a few sessions as he wasn’t engaging with the work that was needed. Honestly he has lurched from mental health crisis to crisis ever since I’d be here all day if I listed it. He has a history of compulsive lying ( although I don’t think he’s lying about this just confused) and or concealing quite serious things one instance stretching over years which we helped him get out of when he finally told us. I’ve begged him to go to the GP so many times about his mental health, my DH is on long term anti depressants and has tried talking to him as someone who knows how it feels, the physical problem he has he can self refer to get help I’ve sent him the contact details for this on more than one occasion. There is a local clinic for advice about this is which again you can just turn up for I’ve offered to go with him still he won’t go. He has just spoken to his GP who is going to refer him to gender services ( not sure what it is called) I was quite hopeful that that he would get counselling there, that he would actually attend and that would help him.

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picklemewalnuts · 14/11/2022 15:36

I think I'd need a proper sit down chat with him and get a couple of things straight at the start.

  1. We will always love you, no matter what you wear or what you call yourself.
  2. This is a huge decision and as caring parents we will ask you a lot about it and want to support you to the best possible life.
  3. You will always be our little boy, and it will take a long while for us to get used to that changing- we will make mistakes and get it wrong, please be patient.

I would then be a bit watch/wait until I saw where it was going. I'd send articles about de transitioners 'just in case' he is unaware of the long term health impacts of inappropriate hormone treatment.

Don't take a hard line- it's not easy to back down from. There may be time in future to 'wonder' whether the women he bumps into may feel alarmed by a transitioning man in their space etc. but not yet.
Flowers

wildseas · 14/11/2022 15:36

In your situation i would leave any conversation about being gc out at least initially and I would tell him that you will always love him.

At the same time i would offer to fund a really good counsellor to help him work through his feelings.

Has he ever had an assessment for autism? I hate armchair diagnoses but it is really heavily correlated with people reporting gender disphoria and also with some of the behaviour you’ve described

WallaceinAnderland · 14/11/2022 15:35

If he's only been thinking about it for a year, I doubt he has gender dysphoria so this will be a social choice. What I would ask him is why he wants to transition, to what extent and what he thinks will change for him.

TinFoilHatty · 14/11/2022 15:30

Hiya.

This sounds a difficult situation for you all.

Can I ask you, is he living in his own place? Easier if he is, you won't be asked to lie, even from a place of kindness and love, every day, if he's not in your home.