'Misgendering' cannot be discussed?

Quite. Shut up and provide hetero sex on demand. We don't care if you enjoy it, in fact no interest whatsoever in your feelings about it, you're not a reciprocal partner in this situation, you're just a body that male people feel entitled to use. So overcome your 'genital bias' (homosexuality) and 'learn to cope'.

This is apparently, in the interesting minds of those who believe this, neither conversion therapy, nor treating homosexual females like unpaid sex workers, or really quite abhorrent behaviour towards females to service a male desire.

And we're supposed to pretend that sex doesn't exist.

Get to fuck with that.

Afghan women aren't even allowed to walk in the park now, according to a news item I saw this week. The Taliban had specified that women could walk in parks on certain days and men on others. Now the women are banned altogether.

What really annoys me about the "we want to be women so you must overlook our biology or get censored" movement is that half way around the world women are fighting to have even the most basic human rights.

Afghan girls were thrown out of Unis and schools and now gyms. 15,000 Iranian protesters are in prison, facing the death penalty, as the Iranian govt tries to crack down on protests after the death of Mahsa Amin who was beaten to death for wearing an "improper". form of hijab.

@mids2019
Absolutely online dating is now impossible for Lesbians with all the men there. The exception is Sall Grover's Giggle app
I will be frank; women's bodies are beautiful and sexually appealing ; male bodies physically disgust me.
Men also are different socially. I have zero romantic interest in them.
The Lesbian community is now underground and yes the point was to force us to dissolve and be pansexual.

@ToGanymedeAndTitan

Very true. Threads that bully those who share a different view are deleted, Ives had very derogatory comments stating I'm wrong on gender issues. I have first hand knowledge of gender dysphoria and know it is very much real, being told it isn't is bullying, the same thing as the pro trans lobby is accused of. Whilst having an adult discussion on the possible options for practical arrangements seems impossible here.

Most of us are more understanding of both sides but that doesn't mean we can't be uncomfortable with certain things (open changing rooms without cubicles is my personal bugbear as I've had an encounter six foot person with an appendage in one, no threat to me but I can't I see it! whereas have no issues with cubicled changing villages) We can be anywhere on the spectrum I suppose, but here there's people who can't understand that. Feminism has other causes too!

Romance languages are tricky as everything is either male or female. As foreigners we often make mistakes and sometimes get corrected by others but in a helpful kind of way. The only aggressive coercive response comes from TRAs when we refuse to use the preferred words. It is the fact we refuse that they don’t like as in any other case it really doesn’t matter!

And hospitals will simply lie to women's faces -

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-hospitals-warned-over-isolating-transwomen-dwc6dwvw5

You'd have thought they would have learned some lessons after this but it seems not -

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

Probably my fault the last thread got flamed. Sorry!

Rachel Dolezal came up when someone compared reporting misgendering when the person wasn't present, as being logically equivalent to reporting racism when the victim was not present.

Yes, as far as I can follow this, 'genital preferences' are transphobic, and people should work hard to overcome them. Lots of examples in this article. medium.com/@rogerdubar/no-your-sexual-preferences-are-not-transphobic-8808b8ec2cd0

I think this is the position. It makes no sense to me and I don't understand how it hasn't been firmly knocked back by all concerned, but here we are. Gender identity trumps sexual orientation. Biological sex is irrelevant until someone wants a baby, when miraculously they all know exactly whose services are needed.

Male human, sexually attracted to female humans, identifies as a male = straight or heterosexual man.

Same person, now identifies as a woman = lesbian. Women, i.e. female humans, who are only sexually attracted to other women are now expected to include this male in their dating pool. They are told they can get used to male genitalia if they just work at it. Sickening and very obviously homophobic against lesbians.

___

Female human, sexually attracted to female humans, identifies as a female = lesbian.

Same person, now identifies as a man = straight man. Does this make any lesbian who has a relationship with this person a straight woman?

Male human, sexually attracted to male humans, identifies as a male = gay man.

Same person, now identifies as a woman = straight woman. As above, does this make gay men who have sex with this person into straight men?

_

Female human, sexually attracted to male humans, identifies as a female = straight woman.

Same person, now identifies as a man = gay man. Expects to be included in the dating pool of gay men. As you might expect, gay men are proving very resistant to this idea, and are getting far less grief for their stance than lesbians in the equivalent position. Obviously, gay men are not at much risk of violence from trans men, whereas lesbians unfortunately are at risk from trans women, as from all other males.

It means that women pay a premium for everything.

I wanted to stay in a hostel in a European city, but even in a 'female dorm' I don't feel safe that there won't be a man in there, so I don't go. It costs me more to stay in a single room or apartment, but at least I know I don't have to share with a man.

I don't book a 3-berth or 6-berth sleeper train because I don't want to share with males and there is no way of guaranteeing that 'female only' means just women. So I pay more for a single berth.

I don't go to the swimming pool anymore because the female changing rooms don't mean female only. I don't go to the gym for the same reason.

And so on.

This is all because of calling males 'she' and 'her'. Of course it causes harm.

If a transgender woman defined as being lesbian i.e. attracted to women can that make any.sense at all.when it comes to defining lesbianism? The extension of the argument would be that the woman in the scenario accepts being a lesbian but dates someone with all the characteristics that define her as not being gay. The logical twistiareare.quite bizarre.I

When a transgender person dates they seem to have to adopt a sexuality (hetero/homo) that fundamentally does not fit with the definitions of these sexuality types removing the need for these terms hence can you have T in LGBT?

If I remember rightly @picklemewalnuts It used to be the case that we kind of prided ourselves on not reporting unless it was really abusive or personal be wise we didn’t want to sink to the monitors levels but as time has gone on and the amount of deliberate merailing, sealioning & reprribg of threads in AIBU so they get shunted off to the naughty corner, has increased I’m very much in fuck it mode now & will report

Define not deny

@Waitwhat23

This must put lesbians in a particularly vulnerable situation with regard to on line dating. It must be difficult enough to come out and explore your sexuality without the added danger that your date has unexpected genetalia.

Surely homosexuality is by definition attraction to a member of the same sex. I am not gay but I presume that there is an innate sexual attraction to a person with similar genitalia (amongst other things) that denies the concept of being gay.?.(How else.could it be meaning fully defined?)

f Does the LGB community effectively disband as everyone is gender fluid and can identify as any gender you like making terms like gay or lesbian effectively meaningless?

It's exactly homophobic. It's why I came back here when I left during the first MN purge, so I can say as an older staunch Lesbian ; I am same -sex attracted.
And encourage other Lesbians and women to assert loudly and boldly their hard boundaries.

Men cannot be women; they can only be men in dresses and high heels and women's sports...

Do you need to pander to your DD? The person you’re referring to isn’t even within earshot!

Homophobic rather than homophonic, obviously.

Gender ideology is inherently homophonic. Stonewall have changed the definition of homophobic from same sex attracted to same gender attracted.

This article address the idea of 'girl dick' and the cotton ceiling -

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-57853385

I’m currently getting it wrong a lot to the annoyance of DD. One of the girls she’s mates with in 6th form uses they/them. I keep forgetting.

A pronoun isn’t a word we focus on, it’s like trying to not say “the” or “a”… it’s such a basic building block of speech I don’t notice them. So when I refer to that clearly-a-young-woman friend in passing, I say ‘she’ unthinkingly.

yes

I don't normally report. but if 'going off topic' is going to be used as a reason to delete threads, then I shall report those encouraging a thread to go off topic and get fighty in future

I agree.

I may choose to avoid a person's sex based pronouns in a situation where there is reciprocal social relationship in which they offer the same respect and 'kindness' that I do, but I will not mis sex. I will use their name to replace. And yes, it will be an effort on my part to jump through linguistic hoops to the effect of something I do not believe.

If however the concept of 'misgendering' is being used as a means of battering me or anyone else into compliance with coercive control and trying to make me enact a belief I do not hold? Then I have been forced to the discourtesy of being plain, because I'm not co operating with that. If you do not want me to state reality plainly and point out the behaviour behind all this then do not push me to the point of having to do it.

I am not going to be a willing or co operative victim of coercive control. And I really won't care how many synonyms you can find for 'heretic'.

As for asking children to go along with it eg in a school - wholesale, shameless gaslighting.

It’s compelled speech. It’s asking someone to call an apple a banana, or a cat a dog and then getting huffy and outraged if the person gets it “wrong”. It’s fucking stupid. Why does a small group of people get to control how we articulate the truth before our eyes?

One strange point. Does beard bloke identify as a lesbian if he dates women? If so does this not fundamentally undermine the concept of a lesbian and therefore eroded any equality concerns of that population? If beard bloke dates men then technically he is not gay and therefore could not complain against homophobia? The concept of transgender potentially makes homosexuality a vague concpt?

Wit sounds like beard bloke is using a policy assumption to place himself in terms of.a position of power with regard to other people's use of language and put them permanently off guard. I wonder if the person is happy in their role and what his relationship was like generally with the rest of the team?

@Redebs

That makes perfect sense. Are we at a stage where this accepted defence mechanism is questioned? Correct gendering is important for safety on a number of levels; it is not used as an insult. It also guided conversation as there are particular life life and health circumstances that effect only women.