When did this board become a "safe space"?

And the same goes for female relatives of males who still identify as trans of course, not just detransitioners.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying, and apologies if I've not been clear, the female relatives should absolutely be able to come here, and they won't be able to do do if we're praising their male relatives. I'm making the point just as much for them as for us.

There's a lot of talk about male detransitioners, and the impact they have on female partners. But where do the mothers, sisters, female relatives of those detransitioners go? Are they not allowed to come onto MN to discuss it because of trans widows?

Transition affects more than just partners.

You make some really interesting points about forced teaming, I hadn't thought about that and yes, a discussion is probably needed.

This was what bought about the debacle on twitter, I absolutely will not have trans widows force teamed with male transitioners of any kind. Many people were very shocked at my audacity in saying no, and drawing a very firm boundary.

I was told by flying monkeys that amongst other things, I needed to "grow a backbone". Fair enough Twitter is a bunfight, but a space like FWR should be more supportive of womens boundaries

Absolutely.

I don't think FWR is a "safe space" if that means everybody has to be nice to each other, but I do believe that it should be a space that puts women first.

It does sound a bit like there's some confusion and conflation between 'feminist space' and 'safe space'.

Feminism is by and for women.

That has nothing to do with safe spaces.

This is all very similar to when we used to have well known "transexual allies" (ie AGP men) lauded and fawned over here. Thankfully that's slackened off recently as those individuals have generally moved in to other pastures (such as "journalism")

Really it boils down to who do you want here, men who have benefitted (at least at some point) from gender ideology, and who have worn our faces and aped our oppression, or the women who were their victims? You can't have both.

Some people may think that men like trans widows exes have more to contribute to the debate than we do. That's a legitimate choice, but it's not a feminist one.

Having read Tinsel's post now, I'm going to repeat a bit of mine which I think is relevant-

Anything relating to Trans is shoved in the feminism, sex and gender section, that means all discussions happen in feminism even if they are not woman focussed.

So a thread centring a detrans man may be better made elsewhere on the site but that's not allowed. Forced teaming, if you like.

That's going to need addressing, if Tinsel is right. The feminism section shouldn't be diverted into a support group for detransing men. There's more to feminism than gender criticism, even if that's an urgent current focus.

Thanks Finegar.

So she was ticked off for pointing out the detransitioners poor behaviour on Twitter?

I do think it's hard to balance all the various interests and concerns on MN.
Given anything relating to Trans is shoved in the feminism, sex and gender section, that means all discussions happen in feminism even if they are not woman focussed.
So a thread centring a detrans man may be better made elsewhere on the site but that's not allowed. Forced teaming, if you like.

So MN posters are free to talk about a male detransitioner positively and also to point out their problematic behaviour.

To answer the Q - in this climate, this is one of the few places we can actually discuss this to some degree.

The only reason is likely that this is a big Women's forum & the whole thing would implode if they were to seen as being unsupportive of issues that females, particularly feminists feel strongly about.

Have had posts deleted too, but generally speaking we can share here

Those of us who want to discuss the Genderism trend can generally do so here without being immediately banned or run off by other members.

Men tend to not gather here & while the Gender Extremists must lurk here, we are largely left to our own tiny, TERFY corner of the internet

I'm sorry if you felt bullied and I did apologise for misunderstanding your intentions, before the thread was deleted, but you may not have seen it.

That's not exactly what you were told though.

I said I questioned whether FWR is the correct place to support male transitioners, given doing so will potentially exclude the women in their lives from visiting here, which is supposed to be a feminist space

I said this particularly to pre-empt what I think will be the next trend- a wave of heterosexual / AGP detransitioners. When that happens and they are lauded here, what happens to the trans widows who were their victims?

This may not be a female only space, but users of it, in my view, should prioritise vulnerable women over men. I wouldn't have thought that was a controversial view in feminism.

However I've missed whatever thread it was that's given rise to several mysterious threads this morning! I feel a bit hampered.

If anyone wanted to summarise...

"Safe Space" is now a term used by people to stifle debate, disagreement and encourage group think. Any opinions (like defining two biological sexes) can be defined as "hateful" and see people banned.

People on here should be free to express their views. I've been on too many websites (completely unrelated to gender) and people use the trans issue to deliberately get people banned. I was recently goaded into talking about detransitioners and that resulted in an immediate ban.

MN is safe for people to openly discuss these sort of issues.

Yes thats what i was thinking

i think that threads that are supposed to be supportive or asking for support should be left alone, i think thats the case on some of the other boards like lgbt children etc but not necessarily on the FWR board

and i don’t like the term safe space used in this context or the term echo chamber 🤔

"Safe space" generally means somewhere you won't hear anything you disagree with.

This is a "safe place" in the sense you are allowed to say things others may find disagreeable.

It's different!

🤣

"Safe" is a relative term. It's a safer space to question trans ideologies than many others.

I think 'out there' <side eye to the rest of the world> safe space is frankly infantilising. Nobody will challenge you, ask you to justify or even clarify wtf you're banging on about. But it's not safe if you want some justification or clarification. It's not safe if you just want to say 'hang on a minute'.

I think we get that here. That's the kind of safety that I want. Even if being called out because of fuzzy logic or similar. Mainly I learn here and, because I've a memory like a sieve, I keep learning. And read wot other posters write that I want to say but never can with such clarity. And, very often, pmsl.

@CrossStichQueen I saw the thread, I have no idea of the ins and outs but I don't think you were coming from a bad place.

<runs away, feeling unsafe, but smiling>

I don't think good therapists support you no matter what you say. And FWIW even in places like a support thread I think that can create an unhealthy dynamic. I've seen more than one support thread where I thought what was really happening was a poster was being supported in continuing very damaging thinking for herself.

Safe spaces could be a useful concept in limited circumstances but total affirmation is rarely a healthy thing.

I don't think this is a safe space and I mean that as a compliment.

I have seen people disagree on here a lot. And that is even among people who would all be on the more GC side of the debate.

Safe spaces to me are things like support groups for addiction or your therapist's office where you are supposed to be supported no matter what you say