I feel stupid for supporting trans activists and now I have no one to talk to

Don’t worry, OP. The vast majority of the human race don’t believe for one moment that TWAW, TMAM, whatever Starmer and Mordaunt and Biden say. The circles you have moved in are hot for it at the moment, but as the full horror emerges , they will start pretend they never, ever , supported it. Just like everyone in France in the sixties had been in the Resistance.

how many people have I managed to offend in this post? How soon before I am deleted? Never mind. Welcome to the world of sanity. You’.. fir right in.

OP, you say All of my friends are on the liberal trans rights bandwagon. If I was ever honest about my feelings they would eat me alive.

Doesn't this tell you something depressing about your 'friends'? Don't you deserve people who actually like you for yourself, outrageous male-defying opinions and all? Or who at least would have a little sympathy? or take a moment to consider that you might have a point? or a fleeting thought along the lines of "I like Redead and she's never done anything disgusting before, so maybe I'll let that one pass."

My friends either argue vociferously or let my opinions pass (undoubtedly rolling their eyes), because they're, you know, my friends.

Have you read any of the virulent woman-hating stuff posted online every day by transactivists? Does this give you a hint that there is something wrong there?

I hope you can find better friends in your life, OP.

Teenagers find the "you're parents don't understand you" line very appealing too. They are (largely) trying to establish themselves as independent from their parents and other family. In most cases that is a healthy part of development. In some cases (where teens use drugs or engage in risky sexual behaviour) it is not healthy and there needs to be a "whole village" approach to ensuring teens don't do themselves irreparable harm.

Detransitioners cause a problem here too, because they are acting like the reformed alcoholics or ex-prisoners we sometimes invite in to speak to students in school. They are pointing out that the particular mode of rebellion and "independence" might not be such a good plan after all.

Mumsnet is safe in the real sense of the word, in that TRAs can't attack with impunity and aren't encouraged to find people in real life and harass them. Pile-ons (psychological assault on individuals) are stopped by the moderators.

It's not 'safe' in the sense used by people who think they are injured by hearing an opinion they disagree with. It promotes free speech and doesn't censor dissenting opinions. Thank god!

I imagine if a teenager even thought this was a remote possibility they would choose to try to cope with the dysphoria rather than trying to fix it with surgery.

But... teenagers are not known for rational decision making. Or avoiding risks. Or foresight. Or listening to warnings when they want to do something. They can brush off even quite high possiblities of horrible danger. Risk can actually be quite attractive, makes them feel brave and grownup..

What does appeal to teenagers is people they can relate to, with stories that they can relate to. That's another reason why detransitioners are such a threat and have to be pushed out and silenced.

There was a link on Glinner's substack to a YouTube by Cluniac commenting on a YouTube by a TM that lay in the house that Jack built.

The tm was commenting how important validation from everyone was, new name, new pronouns. Especially when you are likely to be having doubts yourself that you're really trans! Tbf, they did acknowledge this as a possibility but insisted if you are thinking you are trans it was most likely internalised transphobia.

It was so sad and so clever, they'd painted themselves into a corner.

The “trans” view on the other hand often says that a male who likes dresses, make-up, and so-on is not “really” male.

And that's where it gets really confused. Because what if you are male and you like dresses, and the view is you're not "really" male - well does that make you "really" trans? And does being "really" trans mean that you are supposed to want hormones and surgery? Like that poor detransitioner?

You can kind of see the disaster coming from a long way off.

I thought I had broken free from the thought control but I simply fell into the next best one.

Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

I'm from a religious upbringing, though not as strict as yours. I'd also had quite a narrow experience in childhood - nice MC primary, single-sex grammar (full of MC kids). For me, OP, I think that university was a problem that restricted my thinking in a way I just didn't see. I know the idea is that it is all about meeting new people, learning new things and expanding your horizons. But, ime, I met a far wider range of people with a wider range of views in the first 3 months working in an office than I did in 5 years at university.

@Redead I think you would really enjoy/relate to this podcast: www.blockedandreported.org/p/episode-136-how-the-left-can-fight#details

In this episode there's an interview with a woman who was "cancelled" by her friends for not displaying right-think on social media, and who went on to start her own podcast called Fucking Cancelled (fuckingcancelled.libsyn.com/)

Well, I wasn't really expecting gushing comments but it was in stark contrast to another friend who was struggling with secondary infertility and going through IVF. The difference I felt was that my (female) friend had had a reasonable expectation of being able to fall pregnant and feel desperately sad that I was when she wasn't so I was really careful about what I said, didn't complain to her etc. But my (transwoman) friend could never have had such an expectation, so negative comments like "you don't have to rub it in" regarding my pregnancy really took me aback. I remember she didn't like me nursing either and seemed to take it personally.

It’s not really any consolation at all to the detransitioner, but from experience when a group of people attack an individual like that it’s because they’ve made them question a core belief that’s held. “If person X feels like this, maybe this nagging thought in the back of my mind is right too. But I don’t want it to be right so person X is wrong and bad and evil and transphobic and we must attack”.

A view that you’ll see expressed here (and which I agree with) is that the typical “trans” view of gender is far more constrictive and less “free” than the GC view in that GC says that no-one needs to confirm to the stereotypes associated with their gender; there really is no “girl-like” way to be; everyone who is female is by definition “girl like.”

The “trans” view on the other hand often says that a male who likes dresses, make-up, and so-on is not “really” male.

I also lost a friend who was a transwoman around the time that I had DS1 - at the time I found it a bit odd how she behaved at that time but in retrospect it must have just highlighted that she was biologically male and always would be, making comments like "I'm so sad I'm too old to have a baby" and "I always wanted to do that" etc. She had come to our wedding, was a dear friend and neighbour, we supported her through hormones and surgery which for a person in their 50s was completely debilitating (and permanently disabling). With what I know now looking back, I think she was really a very effeminate gay man who had been raised in a supremely macho, working class community surrounded by strong female matriarchs (I met her mum and her aunt) and negative male figures . I think she had been closeted all her life and absorbed the message from her family that it was more acceptable to be a transwoman than to be herself and had a huge amount of internalised homophobia.

I always find it ironic that TRAs tell us to educate ourselves and meet transpeople, as if we never have. In fact it is having close family and friends who are transwomen that cemented the knowledge (which is, incidentally, shared by them) that TW are not and never will be women. They are transwomen and are walking another path from me as a biological woman.

Yes. I don’t have a gender identity. I am female, something that’s not open to debate or in any way subjective.

I agree though if society chooses to use the term gender as an identity statement then most people actually don't have a gender identity so can't match. We need to be clear what we're really talking about when we use the concept of matching.

@Beamur WOW that was a very difficult read. I kept wondering who this Redcar guy was at first and then I realised it was the (female) lead singer. I wonder why she's decided to name herself after a slightly down at heel Yorksire town? 😂

Apologies to anyone living in Redcar :)

@Redead

Welcome!

You are not a bad person. It's unfortunately a weird world that might have started from a good place (ie being kind to trans people), but which has very badly malfunctioned and misfired. Until you see it, you just see "kind liberals" being persecuted by "horrible old women" (btw I'm 36 and a mother of two, but there is an assumption as to the right "young" position).

You say that you have been on the receiving end of comments about being pregnant and breastfeeding. I'm afraid that this just demonstrates that, whilst being trans might be your happiest self (and will be for some people - those who have very severe dysphoria), it's not the magic wand it is being sold as (and sold extremely dangerously to minors). Ultimately, even if you transition happily, you have to accept the sex you are born on some level, because you can't acquire the fertility or exact same body parts or health profile of a person of the opposite sex. This is just truth.

If you are a trans woman inflating/dilating your neovagina on a daily basis, you have to do maintenance that other women don't - they instead have to suffer periods and smear tests etc. it's not the same, unless you just see a vagina as an orifice for a penis (and even then it's not going to have the same pleasure component as for a biological woman) - ie through the eyes of a man only. Same for a trans man, who needs to pump up their penis to have sex and will most likely have no feeling in it. It's not the same. For some, this is still the best possible option, but it is not the same.

If you look at some older transitioners, the Debbie Haytons, this is a truth that they recognise - they want to live a peaceful life as close as they can be to a woman in form and accepting that they cannot be a woman (which leads them to compromise on other things, access to female spaces etc). This is a path to self acceptance. Unfortunately, there is a subset who want pretence and adulation - this is unhealthy and, when it comes to young people, it is unkind. They are extremely vocal and have captured the permitted narrative.

Giving up on opportunities for young people to be comfortable as their birth sex, whether or not as a gender non conforming version of it, is unkind. Living in one's birth sex is obviously objectively preferable to a life of surgery, side effects and constantly looking through a window at something that you are closer to, yes, but will never have. Some people cannot achieve that and that is fine - they deserve compassion and kindness, but it is unreasonable to expect to live in total denial.

Some of those who want pretence and adulation will also want this for nefarious reasons. Gatekeeping and safeguarding is not hatred.

I wish you the very best, OP. I hope you can build a network outside this - it doesn't have to be a GC network, obviously. Most people don't give it much thought either way (though surveys show that when you drill down they have GC positions on prisons, sports etc). Just a normal one in which you can raise your daughter in her birth sex to be her authentic self with as little baggage as possible.

This is great- And I don’t think I owe anyone scars, to be precise.

Sex is binary. She's female. Absolutely allowed a masculine aesthetic with no judgement. If she were male and wanting skirts, tights and makeup, especially if straight, she'd struggle more.

I don't understand the angst. I mean good on red for resisting the pull toward a full transition, but still there's no actual transition necessary.

I mean, I could spend ages worrying about how to manage walking across the path outside my house without touching the floor, but it's really not necessary. I quite simply cannot grasp what they are talking about. And generally I'm pretty sympathetic!

Owen Jones has been pushing this position on Twitter recently, the idea that parents should be shut out of the discussion leaving a confused child to turn to groups such as Mermaids.

Yes. They can use children who hate their parents and family and so have no secure footing or protection, to do pretty anything they want can't they? Turn them into little activists who despise and denounce their family and society. Just look at the Chinese Cultural Revolution for example, that's the end of the line. I can't say what I think about the fanatical LOJ but I it begins with a big G.