I feel stupid for supporting trans activists and now I have no one to talk to

I think some of it comes from gaming & stuff like Second Life where you can build your avatar & pretend to be the opposite sex.

I agree with this.

IMO it’s starting to manifest in medical interventions sought too - online there is discussion about FtM transitioners adding DHT blockers to try and avoid body hair growth/balding associated with exogenous testosterone and MtF transitioners seeking out SERMs to feminise appearance without breast growth. Whether the NHS will begin to offer such pick and mix prescriptions I have no idea but it’s becoming increasingly clear that many are seeking to customise their appearance, character selection screen style, rather treat gender dysphoria.

I think some of it comes from gaming & stuff like Second Life where you can build your avatar & pretend to be the opposite sex.

Some sad boy who gets no attention in his school/work life can pretend to be a woman & get attention online.

Avatars don't have to sort the laundry, or any of the other 'womens work' that nobody seems prepared to identify into.

I think for some, they can't see the difference between their fake online presence & real life.

I see what you're trying to achieve but I think that pretending that gender stereotypes are set in stone like they were 50 years ago is actually really damaging. Young people will have to find another way to pretend to themselves that they are being edgy. I'm sure there are plenty of options which don't cause the harm which this does.

I think it's ultimately kind of fake, creating a taboo in order to be seen violating it.

I agree, but I think that's what's happening anyway. It might as well happen less damagingly. And if people want to convince themselves they are edgy when they're really not, as long as it doesn't affect others, that's OK - and there's a long tradition of young people doing exactly that.

This would be less unhealthy, for sure, but it does have the rather interesting element that it depends on gender norms in order to be edgy and cross them. And frankly gender norms that aren't especially rigid in our society and haven't been for several generations.

I think it's ultimately kind of fake, creating a taboo in order to be seen violating it.

@BatCheeseIsFine well said! We can but dream. I wish Redcar had put it as clearly as you have.

One of the problems though is that if you are trans just because you opt out of the stereotypes which one culture associates with your sex, then there are loads and loads of trans people including pretty much all feminists. This means trans people aren't special anymore.

Yes, I’d absolutely qualify myself as would most women I know. But that’s already the case. The shift I’d like to see is that being transgender would be a self-declared cultural category, much like being a goth to which it’s often compared. It then wouldn’t have to affect anyone else and young people would be free to grow out of it or not as the case may be. Of course it would make little sense and for many just about being special and different, ironically in a socially contagious way. But so are many of the phases and identities people are drawn to when young.

I know this wouldn’t tackle agps and predatory men who want to access women’s spaces for their own gratification, but I think there’s hope for younger people, especially if and when they realise that the surgery and hormones are being pushed by big business and put them on a pathway to lining the pockets of big pharma fatcats for life - and as they see themselves as woke sjws, that’s something they could resist and oppose. They could embrace a healthy, greener transgenderism that values the body. It’s one way for the physical harms being done to be reduced so I welcome Redcar/Letissier saying it.

Many visual artists make a character and "wear it" as an aesthetic; but they and we fundamentally know it's pretend. Orlan went further to have plastic surgery but the whole point is that it's known to be a curation.

I honestly think this is the impact of social media and visual media plus queer theory, the imagined is now reality and some kids really can't differentiate between the two.

Peddled myths about health, science and biology don't help.

Neither has porn

Marking spot to read later.

Excellent thread.

Absolutely. Thanks for your heartfelt and honest posts, Needaname.

One of the problems though is that if you are trans just because you opt out of the stereotypes which one culture associates with your sex, then there are loads and loads of trans people including pretty much all feminists. This means trans people aren't special anymore.

I did wonder how much of the identity changing that Redcar seems to go through is about getting media coverage.

But I do rather long for artists who have something interesting about themselves besides identity.

Regarding "Redcar" and that interview.... that take on it makes sense, why should anyone have to carve up their body? It's inching closer and closer to an actual feminist viewpoint, except that you're not allowed to admit to the lived experience of being female by virtue of your biology and physicality, because it's trendy to say that's bigoted/"bioessentialist". (But of course, according to SJWs you are allowed to if you're black, then it's not bioessentialist for your physical reality to matter. Make it make sense.)

I hope this is one route out of the trans nightmare - that people will realise you can be "transgender" (not transexual) by opting out of the gender stereotypes ascribed to your sex, and that's all you have to do. Next step after that, realise that your sex will remain the same so you don't have to claim you're not a man or not a woman. Of course, this can only work for people who are so sexist that they think a particular "gender" identity or stereotype actually should attach to a particular sex, as that's the only way it's possible to think you're special for rejecting it.

Shame the wheel has to be so totally reinvented and what we did in the 80s has been completely forgotten, but I do think it's good Redcar pointed this out.

(I don't think they'll be Redcar for long though - they strike me as a person who has to keep reinventing themselves, plus Redcar? What next, trans people called Methil and Luton?)

Needaname1234567
A fantastic post, thank you very much for sharing. That was an example of excellent parenting and I am so glad your daughter came through it so well. She sounds like a thoughtful, strong young woman now who will strive to make things better for herself and her peers. I think your post may be of help to people going through this right now.

I really wanted to acknowledge that post.

Redead OP - nothing wrong with changing your mind, it shows you are open to alternatives, thinking about the evidence in front of you, something which is sorely lacking these days. Also many congratulations on your new baby. :-)

Because refuses to change body.

It's become an extreme aesthetic that you wear basically. An Avatar.

Not saying I condone it but gives an insight to the psychology.

It also means you can choose not to.

Redcar/ Chris/ Christine is clearly aware that the idea of a transman is still inherently sexist.

So basically, what feminism has always been all about: freeing women from sex stereotyping, with no one having to perform stereotypes.

But for today’s special people, all twisted around so that you have to deny being a woman.

I think you healed a little bit of something inside me. Thank you. I won't forget your words.

Glad to help, Redead. We all need friends, real ones.

Redeads seems quite appropriate. I think if you scream, people will stop and listen. You seem a very competent and thoughtful person from your comments. I hope this thread has helped you.

@Redead Indeed it is. Excitedly awaiting Breath of the Wild 2 😀 and sorry but Redeads are horrible!

My name is ironic because I can't fight for toffee in the game!!! I used to give the controller to my husband to do the fighting - I'm a navigator and puzzle-solver :-)

Something to bear in mind - mental health medically, globally - is woefully behind the times, under funded, under researched and under resourced. Pharmaceuticals are currently the only abundant resource for all mental health conditions - for example the opiod crisis, GPs in the UK prescribing antidepressants before therapy. Therefore not only is it profitable (at least to big pharma) but its also easier for overstretched health services to blindly hand out drug treatments as a blanket treatment, instead of having to admit they aren't remotely equipped to deal with an influx of complex mental health issues.

WarriorN
Me too. It made me a little bit hopeful that this philosophy could be embraced by young women figuring out themselves without resorting surgery and drugs.

Congratulations on your graduation too!

@Needaname1234567, I agree an absolutely amazing story of extreme courage and dedication from you. A ⭐️ mum!