These email pronouns at work

Good responses.

TransgenderTrend
www.transgendertrend.com

Because including pronouns on emails is a statement of a political position. It was quite deliberately created by activists for that purpose. The fact that you find it useful doesn’t change that. (I for example have a name that’s usually used by black people. When people meet me they are sometimes surprised that I’m white. By your reasoning I should add “race: white” as part of my email signature. But I don’t because (a) that’s inappropriate and (b) who cares if people are surprised for a moment when they meet me?!)

OP you’re so right. I don’t want businesses telling employees they must state their politics in every email that’s sent. Employers should not have that level of control.

I find this interesting...and many of the other threads that crop up along similar lines. It's very thought provoking. But I feel massively uneducated on these matters, please can someone direct me to good resources so that I can read up?

Just to add, I think they’ve done it as they’ve been taken over by an American company, and I believe that’s where it’s coming from.
I didn’t see any desire to do so before, and it was very much stressed it’s not compulsory, so somebody has obviously grasped it’s a contentious issue

My company has invited people to do this now, a few people have done so.

I think it’s pointless tbh, I won’t be doing it.

Its up to other people if they want to, but if it becomes mandatory, which I believe some companies have made it, then I will have an issue and have to make the point.

Pretty sure a lot of people do this without having given any thought whatsoever to what kind of statement they are making.

That's the whole point. You can't know whether someone is a man or a woman from the pronouns on their emails. That will only tell you what gender they think they are.

I bin any CV that I receive with pronouns on it. I don't want that sort of nonsense on my team.

I haven't chosen my pronouns yet. I am considering 'thingy/whatsit' or 'fuckoff/outofmyheadwithyourbonkersideologyyoumoron'.

firstly I am going to say that I am ‘worried’ about people who might be trans or non-binary but have not yet fully disclosed this to everyone. Making them use pronouns kind of forces the issue and they may not be ready which is unkind to them.

this is why it should not * *be mandatory, and forced solidarity is no solidarity at all, so fairly pointless. Am I to take from your use of '' that you are in fact not worried about trans people being outed but its a convenient out?

It's because it feels like bullying to me

Assertive stating of one's sex in front of the sex that is known to have been trained by society to defer to the male sex

There are loads of reasons to do it. People with foreign names, people who want their gender / sex known, people who often get mistaken for the other and yes, people who are trans or want to show support for trans folk. I work in a discipline where lots of people go by unusual pronouns and it's really helpful to know what to call people. Of course these people typically know it's a debated issue, but they don't care. Just as I wouldn't care if other people interpreted my lack of pronouns in email as malinformed "coming down on one side of the debate".

If you don't want to do it, just don't do it.

I have a colleague whose daughter is caught up in all of this and changing pronouns. Colleague is at a bit of a loss & not too sure how to handle but is adding pronouns to emails to try & be supportive.

So probably not overly aware of the bigger picture but the family situation is guiding the decision making. Very casual at work if you do or don't want to.

I’m NHS and noticing it a lot more.
I’ve already decided what my very polite response will be if asked to include mine (but tbh I think it is unlikely). I will refuse and give these reasons.

firstly I am going to say that I am ‘worried’ about people who might be trans or non-binary but have not yet fully disclosed this to everyone. Making them use pronouns kind of forces the issue and they may not be ready which is unkind to them.

secondly I am going to say that I am worried that having been made to disclose one of my protected characteristics, will there be an expectation that I have to disclose others such as my religion or sexuality? As I am entitled to keep these details private, why is my ‘gender’ (sex) different? I would stress that this makes me anxious.

I’d also say that I really and truly don’t mind what pronoun people use for me or if they really need an answer please call me by my first name or job title as I really don’t mind. I’ve only even heard my name used for females.

Last week, in the wake of the coerced outing of a young actor from the TV series Heartstopper, the Guardian itself came out against coerced outings, with a piece concluding "Nobody’s sexuality or gender identity needs to be offered up for other people’s consumption – no, not even a celebrity’s". Maybe you could forward it to your workplace next time they try to make you do it.

would much rather 'debate' people's lives.

Too damn fucking right I will ‘debate’ people’s lives when there is a conflict in how to accommodate two groups needs.

There is no kindness in allowing a person in one group to have their needs prioritised over another person in a different group who also needs protection. Better solutions need to be found instead.

It is foolish to believe that no discussion is needed to find those solutions. I am deeply suspicious of people who frame those discussions as people seeking solutions as being someone who ’would much rather 'debate' people's lives’.

Sounds like someone entrenched and not prepared to find a solution when those words are used.

Exactly who benefits from that?

How odd that my post was cut. I’ll try that again.

Most of women, who write on here about having an ambiguous, see it as an advantage - or at least that is my impression from similar threads. There was an experiment done a few years ago, where two m/f colleagues signed off as the other on emails. The male colleague, who couldn’t understand why his female counterpart took so long to complete her work, was surprised he was suddenly questioned on everything he said and the woman instantly believed. Perhaps someone has bookmarked that blog and could post it?

We haven't been told we should do it. I won't be doing it if they ever do. I have not often been misgendered at work, but when I have been, I assume it's only working in my favour and tells me a lot about the person getting it wrong. I'm the only woman in a the department - I don't need to bring attention to that except when it suits me.

It's a lot more annoying than being called "sir" when I've been assumed to be a secretary rather than a techie, or when someone apologises to me (and only me) for swearing (in case it offends my delicate womanly ears - I have male colleagues who are far more likely to get upset at such unprofessional use of words.) I'll start stating my pronouns when they've got rid of the everyday sexism.

Urghh

Who would feel confident doing business with a company who had a sanctimonious "this is why it is important" link at the bottom?

That would have me searching for a new company because I'd think it was representative of the entire place.

My name is deliberately gender neutral because men are paid more than women in my industry, and tend to get more jobs (I'm self-employed). Like fuck am I putting my pronouns on to remind people to pay me less.

That said, I think 90% of people who do it at work do it to a) fit in with a prevailing culture, especially on sites like LinkedIn and b) because the D&I lead asked them to, so why wouldn't you?

Most of the women, who write about having an ambiguous name

I agree with others. Having had to fight to be heard over male peers, I find it counter intuitive to announce and make any reference to being female in a signature block.

I have no problems at all be missexed by email.

And I don’t believe that the world has moved on to not discriminating against female people in the work place. It was only a couple of years ago the organisation representing veterinarians did that experiment with otherwise identical male vs female cvs.

Needless to say the males got the interviews more often and the would be hiring vets admitted they would have paid the fictitious males more.

Maybe I have just been in the workplace for far too long to think that ‘pronouns’ are good and inclusive in the workplace. Yeah. Right. Inclusive for who again?

"I honestly don't see how knowing if someone is a man or woman when you can't see them to work it out is causing problems for you."

The insidious spread of gender identity ideology is a problem for every woman. This is the gateway to it. Normalising forced speech and thinking about something so toxic is not good for anyone. I also have a male type name. I don't give a shit if people mis-sex me now and then. I'd rather they did, quickly correct them and get on with my work than be forced to accept that a person with a penis is a woman.

Does someone not knowing your sex in a work context cause any problems? Do people treat you any differently? If they do, or if someone is discombobulated when they find you're a woman - that may say something about them, it may give them pause for thought about their own biases and assumptions.