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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Legal action against Eventbrite for unlawful discrimination

541 replies

Spero · 07/11/2022 21:43

On Oct 27 2022, Eventbrite pulled my book launch event for 'Transpositions - personal journeys into gender criticism'. This was a collection of stories from men and women about how they got involved in issues around sex and gender. Some of you may have contributed.

They told me that I was promoting 'violent and dangerous' content. I asked them to explain themselves. They haven't. So I am taking them to court for unlawful discrimination against my gender critical belief.

I wrote about it in the Critic here thecritic.co.uk/why-is-eventbrite-obstructing-my-book-launch/

I am hoping that some people may feel able to do a spot of gardening. I know its dark and miserable and not the best weather for gardening, but I think this could be quite an important piece of digging. There are some really important questions to ask about how private companies, based overseas are allowed to dictate what we think or say.

OP posts:
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Datun · 08/11/2022 13:03

You cannot compel a citizen of another country to contact out of their statutory rights. That's why I say it will subvert the will of Parliament. Anyway - it will be interesting to find out!

it will be. And apart from anything else, the women in the country need to know exactly which service providers are subject to our discrimination laws.

Then we can be discerning about who we choose.

Chersfrozenface · 08/11/2022 13:00

The 2010 Equality Act prohibits discrimination against people with protected characteristics in the provision of goods and services.

Belief is a protected characteristic.

Spero · 08/11/2022 13:00

TirisfalPumpkin · 08/11/2022 07:17

Unenforceable terms are a thing. You can’t just write into a contract ‘we can decide to violate equality law at our discretion and by signing up you agree to this.’

I’m feeling a bit of digging fatigue to be honest, I think there are more important causes at the moment and we don’t need to sue everyone who acts like a plank, but good luck with it.

This isn't just 'acting like a plank' is it? It's a very clear example of a private company attempting to subvert our laws and a clear threat to our democracy. But of course if you don't agree, don't donate. I just think it's missing the point to say 'o well just Eventbrite being silly!'.

OP posts:
Spero · 08/11/2022 12:58

Apollo442 · 08/11/2022 03:29

@Discovereads you could write the moon is made of cheese in your T&Cs but it doesn't make it so. A private company doing business here in the UK has to abide by OUR laws and answer to OUR courts. You cannot refuse service because of someone's race, religion, disabilty or sexual orientation and as been proven in court, being GC IS protected under the Equality Act. You can take their T&Cs and wipe your arse with them. They have broken the law.

I don't profess to know the Equality Act inside out (that's why I need a specialist solicitors) but that does strike me as a fair précis of my position!

OP posts:
Coyoacan · 08/11/2022 12:58

MoD international contracts are

Ok, so you are an arms dealer. Charming. I always like to learn about compassion from arms dealers.

Spero · 08/11/2022 12:56

MissPollysFitDolly · 07/11/2022 23:04

You are very brave, go get 'em!

Where do we dig?

It's my pinned tweet at @SVPhillimore

OP posts:
Spero · 08/11/2022 12:55

Discovereads · 07/11/2022 23:54

They told me that I was promoting 'violent and dangerous' content. I asked them to explain themselves. They haven't.

Always a good idea to read the T&Cs I think when asking yourself, why has my contract been terminated?

”16. Our Community Guidelines
You agree to abide by the Eventbrite Community Guidelines whenever you use or access our Services. Please read these carefully, as they affect what types of content and conduct are permitted on and through the Eventbrite Services.”

Community Guidelines:
”Hateful, Dangerous, or Violent Content or Events Don’t Post Hateful or Dangerous Content or Events That Discriminate Against or Threaten Any Societal Group, or Encourages Violence. This includes: Hate speech, hateful ideologies and hateful activities that incite, encourage or engage in violence, intimidation, disparagement, harassment, or threats targeting an individual or group based on their actual or perceived race, ethnicity, religion, national origin, immigration status, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, age or veteran status Terrorist symbols, activities and organisations or organised criminal activity”

“17.3 Additional Rules About Your Content. Your Content must be accurate and truthful. Eventbrite reserves the right to remove Your Content from the Services if Eventbrite believes in its sole discretion that it violates these Terms, our Community Guidelines, or for any other reason…”

Not surprised they have ignored you, by signing the T&Cs, you literally agreed they could in their sole discretion remove your content for any reason. So even if you prove your content was not hateful, dangerous or violent content, their fall back is so what? You agreed that we can remove it in our sole discretion for any other reason.

Oh, and U.K. “rule of law”? Doesn’t apply because you also agreed to:
“23. Applicable Law and Jurisdiction
These Terms are governed by the laws of the State of California, without regard to its conflict of laws rules. These laws will apply no matter where in the world you live. But if you live outside of the United States, you may be entitled to the protection of the mandatory consumer protection provisions of your local consumer protection law. Eventbrite is based in San Francisco, California, and any legal action against Eventbrite related to our Services and that is not precluded by the arbitration provisions in these Terms must be filed and take place in San Francisco. Thus, for any actions not subject to arbitration, you and Eventbrite agree to submit to the personal jurisdiction of the federal or state courts (as applicable) located in San Francisco County, California.”

There are some really important questions to ask about how private companies, based overseas are allowed to dictate what we think or say.

You literally allowed them to make these decisions regarding publishing/hosting your content by agreeing to their T&Cs for service. This doesn’t affect what you think or say, it just means you have agreed in advance that they can refuse you their service of hosting an event advertising content including what you think or say. US & CA rule of law also doesn’t include political belief like GC as a protected characteristic against discrimination laws.

I am taking them to court for unlawful discrimination against my gender critical belief. Good luck with that!

You cannot compel a citizen of another country to contact out of their statutory rights. That's why I say it will subvert the will of Parliament. Anyway - it will be interesting to find out!

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/11/2022 12:51

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 12:46

MoD international contracts are. 🙄

Find barrel, scape bottom of barrel - claim international agreements involving a department of the state is relevant to a dispute between private persons.

You are very entertaining

LunaLights · 08/11/2022 12:47

ItsLateHumpty · 08/11/2022 12:37

Is this good advice similar to the quality legal advice I read about from Good Law Project, who seem to loose (or moon walk out of) cases they bring?

I dunno why but it brings to mind the SH version of legalise.

IANAL so could very well be swinging the wrong golf club, but if I can afford to punt a few £ I guess that’s my look out 🤷🏻

100%

Datun · 08/11/2022 12:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I don't know why you get so aerated when I say I don't read what you write. You can't possibly think that your posts are coming across as a desire to help women, rather than to stop them.

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 12:46

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/11/2022 12:29

No contract is under U.K. law. It’s not a thing. Scots law is different from English law so a contract is subject to either English law or Scottish law but never U.K. law.

MoD international contracts are. 🙄

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 12:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ItsLateHumpty · 08/11/2022 12:37

Is this good advice similar to the quality legal advice I read about from Good Law Project, who seem to loose (or moon walk out of) cases they bring?

I dunno why but it brings to mind the SH version of legalise.

IANAL so could very well be swinging the wrong golf club, but if I can afford to punt a few £ I guess that’s my look out 🤷🏻

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/11/2022 12:29

No contract is under U.K. law. It’s not a thing. Scots law is different from English law so a contract is subject to either English law or Scottish law but never U.K. law.

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 12:25

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/11/2022 12:13

How many of those contracts were governed by U.K. law?

Most of them.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/11/2022 12:13

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 11:46

Well, anyway, I’m done giving OP the benefit of my twenty years in international contract law for free. If she wants to spend her (and your) money pursing this that’s her choice.

How many of those contracts were governed by U.K. law?

DialSquare · 08/11/2022 12:11

No need for you to worry about my money Discovereads. I'm quite capable of deciding what to spend it on without your input.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/11/2022 12:10

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 11:30

Yep, and now that shoe is on the OPs foot quite literally. She wants to sue Eventbrite, she’s going to have to do it in San Francisco county small claims court (if she opts out of their Arbitration process). It seems the same belief is on this thread that U.K. law applies everywhere.

There is no such thing as U.K. law for the purposes of litigation.

Datun · 08/11/2022 12:06

Im just trying the save the OP and anyone crowdfunding from wasting their money. If I were a TRA I would be howling with laughter while egging you on and secretly hoping you all lost a few hundred thousands £££ on your attempt to sue Eventbrite.

This is why don't bother to read what you say, Discovereads. You can't seriously believe that people read your posts and think you're trying to help women.

How you can sit there and fondly think that there is anyone not convinced that you are hellbent on trying to stop this case going forward, God only knows.

Don't do it, don't look, don't finance, don't, don't, don't!!

All in the name of 'helping'.

TirisfalPumpkin · 08/11/2022 11:50

Wasn't that the whole point of the Forstater case, though? International employer tries to impose US-style T&Cs on UK staff, discovers they actually can't override local equality law, get slapped down?

I think the event was hosted on eventbrite.co.uk, anyway, which has a registered address in London...

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 11:50

Alltheprettyseahorses · 08/11/2022 08:20

Nice c&p Discovereads. Just a shame you didn't read it properly:
But if you live outside of the United States, you may be entitled to the protection of the mandatory consumer protection provisions of your local consumer protection law

Sigh, no I did read that but the mandatory provisions of the Consumer Protection Act et al, are quite distinct from the Equality Act and EAT rulings. So nothing in that one exception helps the OPs case at all. Which you’d know if you knew the actual law…

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 11:46

Well, anyway, I’m done giving OP the benefit of my twenty years in international contract law for free. If she wants to spend her (and your) money pursing this that’s her choice.

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 11:41

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude
This isn’t a contractual claim, it’s founded in discrimination.
Oh it is, OP said herself she thinks she has a case for breach of contract due to discrimination. This is a civil contract dispute, it isn’t a criminal discrimination case like hate speech or a hate crime.

Discovereads · 08/11/2022 11:37

Apollo442 · 08/11/2022 11:32

Nonsense. The law applies where you deliver the service. And that isn't San Francisco.

Au contraire. The service wasn’t being delivered in the U.K. but on the web. The rules for determining place of performance for cloud based services are not the same as for touch services.

Apollo442 · 08/11/2022 11:32

Nonsense. The law applies where you deliver the service. And that isn't San Francisco.