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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 4

615 replies

nauticant · 07/11/2022 12:40

UPDATE: a transcript of the proceedings has been published and can be found here: lgballiance.org.uk/tribunal-transcript/

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony was heard from 12 to 15 September, and then, following a break, closing submissions are taking place on 7 and 8 November.

[This paragraph is probaby now redundant] To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4633653-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chamber-thread-3?page=31&reply=121335177
Thread 4: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request in order to include the most up to date information.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:45

IS from CC now but can't hear.

Birdsweepsin · 08/11/2022 12:43

Is he saying: if Mermaids fall on standing, ie they should never have brought the case in the first place, nothing will be properly resolved, ...

so don't do that please?

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 08/11/2022 12:43

I didn't like the one yesterday TastefulRainbowUnicorn

yes! And it seemed to me like that question resulted from thinking along similar lines to this question. As if serving same sex attracted people isn’t a sufficient charitable aim, you have to also include the heterosexual trans.

waterwitch · 08/11/2022 12:42

Thankyou everyone, your witty commentary is appreciated, even if it isn’t trendy! Does anyone know when there will be a decision?

Signalbox · 08/11/2022 12:42

Surely this is why there should have been a preliminary case to decide on standing?

LipbalmOrKnickers · 08/11/2022 12:42

ArabellaScott · 08/11/2022 12:38

That surely can't be an argument? If not, we're going to have to start whittling down the amount of charities by a considerable number, given that they are all effectively competing for a finite amount of money.

They're coming after you next Arabella - all those donations you diverted to Hvaldimir put you on their radar...

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:41

Consider all matters, tribunal in good position to determine facts. This is a matter where there is likelihood of appeal

ickky · 08/11/2022 12:41

yes @FriendofJoanne

TheBiologyStupid · 08/11/2022 12:41

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 08/11/2022 12:33

Do chickens have the ability to access KFC and purchase food?

Marg finally solved the age old riddle. The chicken crossed the road because it wanted a party bucket.

😂

FriendofJoanne · 08/11/2022 12:41

Thanks everyone

FriendofJoanne · 08/11/2022 12:41

@ickky 😂

Has KM finished their summing up bit then?

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:40

FriendofJoanne · 08/11/2022 12:38

Who's talking atm? I'm only following on here and TT, but TT is down at the moment.

We are back to Michael Gibbon KC for final response. He's not saying anything he hasn't said already.

Birdsweepsin · 08/11/2022 12:40

FriendofJoanne · 08/11/2022 12:38

Who's talking atm? I'm only following on here and TT, but TT is down at the moment.

Michael 'engaging and interesting' Gibbon, for Mermaids

ickky · 08/11/2022 12:39

FriendofJoanne · 08/11/2022 12:38

Who's talking atm? I'm only following on here and TT, but TT is down at the moment.

They have fallen into a stupor, it's MG speaking.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 08/11/2022 12:39

MG alas FriendsofJoanne

nauticant · 08/11/2022 12:39

I do appreciate the point that MG is seeking to make, that counsel for LGBA and the CC were more about principles of how things should be properly ordered but the case itself is about the detail of the law and the details of the purposes and objectives of LGBA. I've been thinking along these lines since IS started his arguments yesterday.

OP posts:
ILikeDungs · 08/11/2022 12:39

OMG he is so soporific. Have a hot water bottle on my lap and quietly nodding off

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:39

Accusations of homophobia plays into the approach that LGBA have taken. We reject and say it supports our submissions of the purposes of LGBA

FriendofJoanne · 08/11/2022 12:38

Who's talking atm? I'm only following on here and TT, but TT is down at the moment.

Mmmnotsure · 08/11/2022 12:38

How odd that this thread is not appearing in Trending. It's trendier than some of the others.

ArabellaScott · 08/11/2022 12:38

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:25

MM claim they might suffer financial loss by sharing donations.

KM - They have no legal right to not share donations.

(paraphrased)

That surely can't be an argument? If not, we're going to have to start whittling down the amount of charities by a considerable number, given that they are all effectively competing for a finite amount of money.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 08/11/2022 12:38

His argument is moving in a granular fashion. Did I use it right?

Ameanstreakamilewide · 08/11/2022 12:37

He's an aural tranquiliser dart.

Signalbox · 08/11/2022 12:37

I'm not sure what his point is.

I wonder if he knows what his point is. It's very hard to follow his meaning.

chilling19 · 08/11/2022 12:37

Wallace** 'Oh his voice, I am falling asleep already.'

👆

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