Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 4

Forgot to add these bits to above post (and point about choosing the sex of your examiner).

RC: That guidance is lawful, it respects Inner House and definition of woman in guidance was provided by law, as a result of section of GRA, which has not been repealed or dissapplied by EA and its def of woman.

RC: No qualifier 'a woman registered as such at birth'. This petition should be refused.

I thought that because of this bit. If it doesn't have that qualifier bit, then sex is whatever you're having yourself.

RC: I am now turning into the broken record. The final statute to address is offences and examinations. Person has right to request examination of certain sex. Either provision permits the complainer to request interviewer or Examiner is to be man or woman as appropriate.
RC: May be issue of different terms, that being gender, that I respectfully submit, playing my record again (missed).
This takes me back to outset, this case is about revised statutory guidance and what is meant by 'woman'.

Don't quite understand this. Did RC say that the right to choose the sex of an examiner (eg. in case of rape etc) can mean the 'gender' version of sex and not necessarily the actual biological sex? Because what, gender really is the same as sex?

AND

RC: it's for all purposes the GRC has that effect. That person with GRC, if that person has gender of female that person sex becomes that of a woman and she will share that PC with other women.

Wow! Like Gallileo, it really is time to consign this ridiculous stuff to history.

Yes, we all saw what happened when lesbians protested at Manchester and Cardiff Prides, didn't we?

I'd suggest that the majority of people turning out to Pride are straight. It's when straight people start to complain about the kink that someone'll listen.

Thank you for acknowledging the victim blaming and homophobia. This is exactly what I was alluding to in my earlier post. 'You've brought it on yourselves.'

MM: If I as a man get a GRC and am living in my acquired gender, as a woman, and I am complaining of sexual harrassment, it is no good to say that I have rights to protection under GR, as that is not the issue. .. That is not the harassment I am facing. In that case, I do not see the point going forward of using this. .. it is about real people, in real life situations.

Did MM (for the EHRC) say that TW are be viewed as women when on the receiving end of sexual harassment? Is the implication that TW are also to be viewed as women when the perpetrator of sexual harassment? So, would that mean they are not dealt with, or risk assessed, in the same way as other males who commit sex crimes? That would be unconscionable.

if these lesbians you talk about are so many etc, if they would have tried having their own pride to distance themselves from men in fetish

Gosh I wonder what happens when lesbians try to set up female-only groups. If only somewhere over the past several years that had been posted about on these boards! I guess we'll never know.

Christina I don't like how you are lesbian blaming here, sorry. I also don't like how you insinuate that lesbians are not parents, and that they do not face similar budget and living costs challenges. Please stop.

@pattihews i know of LBT alliance, but most people don’t. I know of internal dissent, most people don’t.

that’s my point. They will lump you all together bc they’re is no public dissent (apart from lgb alliance but it’s new and small atm) and bc the majority of the organisations and of the lgb in public or in public facing roles are pro everything that happens, including men in fetish gear as submissive dogs being petted by children.

Lesbians taking themselves out of the pride , and it’s not all lesbians, let’s be honest, is playing to the majority.

lgb comes across as exactly one “amorphous lump” to everyone not privy to the conflicts within, bc until now ppl have chosen silence and removing themselves from pride, etc.

even the lgbt think most ppl think like them, why wouldn’t the “common people”?

One or 2 protests have happened where lesbians have been forcefully being removed from pride, but that is not enough to pierce the impression.

if these lesbians you talk about are so many etc, if they would have tried having their own pride to distance themselves from men in fetish, if there would have gone public otherwise, enough to be somewhat visible to the gen pop, then yes, you would have had reason to wag your finger at the public ignorance. As it is, yes, the silent lgb is complicit and the backlash is not unwarranted.

”Your ignorance of the nuances and tensions within the LGB shows.” Lol, nuances, you expect the mum and dad busy with raising children, facing lots of daily issues, another recession to be acquainted with your nuances?…

I'm hoping that the disgrace of Mermaids might be a turning point.

Experimenting on children and males in female sport were always going to be the points of most resistance. They still went there though, the lack of respect for boundaries is astonishing, as is the fact that it's got this far in the first place.

You've just done what they did. You talk about 'the LGB' as if we were one amorphous lump. We're not and never have been. Most older lesbians stopped attending Pride etc a decade or so ago because of the kink and the infiltration of the adult babies and other fetishists. Your ignorance of the nuances and tensions within the LGB shows.

I'm a member of the LGB Alliance, the only major LGB organisation in the country. Stonewall is LGBTQIA+, it doesn't count.

Most of the LGB people I know do not support transgender ideology. Many of us have been protesting about this for years and have been completely ignored. That's why the LGB Alliance was formed, to try and give all of those of us who'd been individually lobbying MPs and councils and everyone else we could think of a communal voice.

You seem to ignore the fact that virtually the whole of civil society was captured before anyone knew what was going on. I and many others I know in the LGB community been jumping up and down and trying to warn people for more than a decade. Please don't blame me for trying to stop this shitshow.

I think those of us who are lesbian or gay or bisexual are also starting to understand how 'other' we are still, despite the progress of the last few years. It's very troubling.

Agreed. It's been overwhelming for me how much men hate being told 'no.' It is not that women love other women; it is the concept that women could be off-limits to them.

I think it's been a perfect storm - the incel movement, the availability of porn, the rise of TQ and then the outright misogyny we have seen over reproductive rights in places like the USA, Poland and Hungary.

I think this week, possibly. next week, is Transgender something something week. I mean more than it normally is. No L, G or B, just trans.

@pattihews well, the T always say they come with the LGB. The main and loud LGB organisations say no LGB without the T also.

they hear that, they look at the pride events with men in fetish gear near children, everyone celebrating and applauding along, what are they to think?

I mean really, it’s every year. How would you not think there is something seriously wrong when all the media, the organisations and the LGB are celebrating and embracing fetishes around children?

You mention they were also aware of “RSE and sex education, drag queens in libraries”. Again more reason to question why are the LGB and the mainstream society ok with this?

and they are onto something. Bc the goal of progressive ideology and of the queer ideology is exactly the erasing of boundaries for everyone and everything, “love has no age” etc

as long as the majority of LGB support this or not express their dissent, they are complicit. The backlash is not unwarranted, it’s not like people are supposed to know the fine points discussed here on MN. They see enough and they see what’s happening.

I think the rights and reality of women, and LGB, have been sabotaged by the Yogyakarta trojan horse torpedo.

The shocking thing is how easily it was to get people in organisations (sports etc) and governments to implement policies and laws to screw both women and LGB over. Indeed becoming 'flat earthers' and reality/science deniers without any critical thinking. And, joining the witchfinders mob in the process. Keir Starmers about how the 'cervix' question shouldn't even be asked. Implication of those who do not wish women to be walked over as being unacceptable. I suspect that quickly becomes 'evil'.

PIE tried in the UK before. Nearly worked for them too. Martijn in the Netherlands wanted their 'rights' recognised/accommodated as well. This time the activists went in to neutralise women first in order to diminish any resistance. Again orgs and legislators only too happy to enable that.

I'm just back from a three-day residential course. It was nothing to do with sex and gender. There were five women and four men, ages ranging from late-30s to early 60s, most in their 40s and 50s.

Several times during lunch and in the evenings the issue of gender ideology came up in discussions — not that anyone except me used the phrase gender ideology.
Most of the women were indignant about various aspects of GI, including RSE and sex education, drag queens in libraries, teen mastectomies and general distaste for men in female-only spaces. Two of the men were aware of issues, two made a point of not getting involved in discussions. I was struck by how muddled they were and how they didn't distinguish between LGB and TQ+ and slid very easily into homophobia. There was very little nuance or in-depth understanding. I found the almost complete inability to distinguish between lesbian and gay people and trans, NB, queer and whatever else people distressing. (I'm a lesbian)

When someone said 'Oh, all drag queens are gay' and someone else added 'And we all know that paedos are mainly gay' and someone else added 'I wouldn't want my children in contact with them', and I said 'What do you mean, them?' they looked at me astonished. They meant LGB and TQ+ because they lump us all in together. When I later came out to them as lesbian they were 'oh, no, lesbians are different, lesbians are fine'. But still it went on — the confusion, the assumption that LGB and TQ+ are one big happy family and the poorly-informed interpretation of what constitutes transgender ideology. I did my best to put right some of the worst assumptions but I know they thought I was a pedantic lesbian bore.

I think many people think they have an excellent understanding of what's going on, while in reality they are very confused. They know they don't like what's they see and are picking up all sorts of random stuff from the internet, but don't have cogent understanding of how the GI movement started and what it's really about. None of the women I was with saw it as a women's rights issue. I think those of us who are lesbian or gay or bisexual are also starting to understand how 'other' we are still, despite the progress of the last few years. It's very troubling.

@AlisonDonut from the CEOs own Tedtalk that child was put through hell. I hope the child is happy now, if they have thoughts of what might have been I hope they are few and fleeting.
Transing kids is evil.

Lets put it this way.

The CEO's husband didn't want a gay son and so they transitioned him.

That they think they are the arbiter of what gay, lesbian and bisexual people should think and do, when they are led by someone who reacted to homophobia by actually removing her son's penis, is deluded.

Brilliantly put.

Great post, really clear setting out of the second issue. Thank you.

nilsmousehammer

Unfortunately, they are all lumped together under this umbrella and people are beginning to resist being told what to do all the time.

It's an important point in this. Homosexual people have been dragged into that umbrella and are being held on to with teeth and claws because as Mermaids openly says: to permit them to escape divides Mermaid's funding stream.

We haven't yet got to unpacking the second reason openly enough in a court room although this case picks at many parts of it: That to Mermaids 'LGB' is NOT a descriptor of a wide diversity of people with the one single characteristic in common of homosexuality. To Mermaids, it is part of a large acronym stating a political position of gender ideology belief: hence their belief that they are not homophobic while wishing homosexuality to be eradicated and homosexual people forced to accept hetero sex with special people with no higher concern for them but an expectation they 'learn to cope' with it.

Mermaid's aim is to refocus all legal protections, public support and funding for LGB to their own field of TQ politics, and to force homosexual people who are non compliant with them out of services, resources, Pride, groups, law and essentially force them back into the closet.

This is why they are so totally pissed off with the LGBA existing, this is why it is an existential threat to them. The LGBA are proof that the TQ political lobby does not speak for or represent LGB people, and divides policy, practice, beliefs AND funding in a way that removes monopoly and control from TQ politics. The LGBA lobbying is not compliant with or helpful to the TQ political wishes for the use of LGB people and their resources.

People link anything gay to Pride rainbow flags and they are linked to Stonewall who have introduced an ideology that everyone is sick of now. It's bossy, it's demanding, it's Orwellian and they've had enough.

Stonewall have caused a backlash against gay people even though it's nothing to do with the gay community. Unfortunately, they are all lumped together under this umbrella and people are beginning to resist being told what to do all the time.

I understand why they are also angry at donations being used for pointless court cases and most comments do recognise that this is MM's doing and LGBA are being forced to spend to defend themselves.

Just don't post a comment three times in quick succession because you know what will appear.

🤐

The comments on the Daily Mail article were quite depressing. Apart from the homophobic responses, a fair few blame LGBA as much as MM for the matter being before a tribunal. And they see it as a sordid squabble over money. Which is entirely down to MM so it seems doubly unfair on LGBA who have been dragged into this.

Bundlejuice 🤣