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Original poster

Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 4

615 replies

nauticant · 07/11/2022 12:40

UPDATE: a transcript of the proceedings has been published and can be found here: lgballiance.org.uk/tribunal-transcript/

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony was heard from 12 to 15 September, and then, following a break, closing submissions are taking place on 7 and 8 November.

[This paragraph is probaby now redundant] To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4633653-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chamber-thread-3?page=31&reply=121335177
Thread 4: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request in order to include the most up to date information.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Chrysanthemum5 · 07/11/2022 15:08

I like this chap's manner - he seems much clearer to understand

chilling19 · 07/11/2022 15:08

Like his thinly veiled point about public schools being challenged as charities would not be in the tribunal's remit and also, to paraphrase, what an absolute shitshow would ensue if this ruling opened the floodgates to allow this.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 07/11/2022 15:07

Mermaids probably currently seething at how transphobic the CC is and the law is and common sense is.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 07/11/2022 15:06

Ooh, your examples from earlier @foodfiend Brava!

donquixotedelamancha · 07/11/2022 15:06

The deeper I get into this the more it feels like a massive conspiracy, but who by and what for? Why did Stonewall make the umbrella so big that pretty much anyone who isn't either Barbie or GI Joe is trans?

Never assign mendacity to that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

All the people doing this think they are the goodies. A combination of never speaking to anyone who challenges their views, the endorphin rush of fighting the good fight and large salaries predicated on their job being a Good Thing combine to convince them of of their rectitude.

If you think you are saving someone's immortal soul then burning witches is the kind thing to do.

Birdsweepsin · 07/11/2022 15:05

"The public benefit is not 'my views are right your views are wrong', but the public discourse and debate that follows from those different views"

I paraphrase a bit but the Cc seems v wise here

ickky · 07/11/2022 15:04

WallaceinAnderland · 07/11/2022 15:02

CC talking an awful lot ofcommon sense here.

Yes they are, this must be very confusing for mermaids as they are not fast friends with common sense.

Chrysanthemum5 · 07/11/2022 15:03

He seems to be removing mermaids arguments quite easily - and I know he's not on one side or the other but their case is so weak I think he has no option

WallaceinAnderland · 07/11/2022 15:02

CC talking an awful lot ofcommon sense here.

ickky · 07/11/2022 15:02

Of course they can, sad that it needs to be pointed out.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 07/11/2022 15:01

Very good point here. Two institutions with differing views can both be charities.

chilling19 · 07/11/2022 15:01

During the Mermaid guy's interminable drone, I would have welcomed an icy comment from the judge about the deficiency of the bundle. 😩

Original poster
nauticant · 07/11/2022 15:01

Snort

OP posts:
TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 07/11/2022 15:00

Bundlejuice

Pyjamagame · 07/11/2022 15:00

Beetlejuice?

ickky · 07/11/2022 14:59

BC I think will always be our number one, he was magnificent.

Original poster
nauticant · 07/11/2022 14:58

Please. You know what happens when that word is bandied about.

OP posts:
IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 07/11/2022 14:57

Bundle! Bingo!

Yet again the bundle is not perfect.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 07/11/2022 14:55

Sigh. Somehow “aims” was autocorrected to “sins” in my comment above. (And my frustrated “augh” was autocorrected to “sigh” just there, but I let it stand.)

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 07/11/2022 14:53

Visuals arrived suddenly for me @FeatherPend

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 07/11/2022 14:53

Now saying M said they did not say it was a sham (which I assume has to meet a in level in law), but a revelation of evidence to the 'true purposes' of LGBA.

there was something in their skeleton argument about this, where they seemed to acknowledge that they couldn’t prove LGBA’s sins were a “sham” because that was too high a bar to meet but… something something.

it wasn’t especially easy to follow their whole argument, which was technical and tedious, but I remember that part because it sounded particularly desperate!

LipbalmOrKnickers · 07/11/2022 14:53

Hvaldimir might have got a couple too.

chilling19 · 07/11/2022 14:52

The CC are doing a good job here.

FeatherPend · 07/11/2022 14:52

I've joined and don't have any visuals! Annoying. Will have to rely on your wit to describe the dishiness and microphone proficiency.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 07/11/2022 14:52

I chucked a few crocuses in earlier. Looking forward to spring!