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Original poster

Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 4

615 replies

nauticant · 07/11/2022 12:40

UPDATE: a transcript of the proceedings has been published and can be found here: lgballiance.org.uk/tribunal-transcript/

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony was heard from 12 to 15 September, and then, following a break, closing submissions are taking place on 7 and 8 November.

[This paragraph is probaby now redundant] To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4633653-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chamber-thread-3?page=31&reply=121335177
Thread 4: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request in order to include the most up to date information.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
FusilliFettler · 08/11/2022 11:13

<stands and applauds>

PicturesOfDogs · 08/11/2022 11:13

This is exposing the hypocrisy of MM

dworky · 08/11/2022 11:13

She went there & did it brilliantly!

Original poster
nauticant · 08/11/2022 11:13

KM is sneaking in the fact that Mermaids engages in political activity, including campaigning for GRA to be changed, lobbying for legislative change, BB gave evidence of meeting to lobby, ie political campaign work that they did and aspired to do more of.

OP posts:
WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 11:11

Compare LGBA political lobbying with MM political lobbying.

Oooh, she went there

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 11:10

KM - It is important that these debates are had. A difference in view does not mean that there is anything improper going on in the discourse of debate.

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 11:09

LGBA is involved in campaigns around conversion therapy and amendments to Scottish GRA. KM explains reasons why - safeguarding children, same sex attracted youth, etc.

Pyjamagame · 08/11/2022 11:08

Thanks dworky, I'm following them and along here as well. Still would give my eye's teeth to be listening in real time.

Birdsweepsin · 08/11/2022 11:04

Do the purposes include political purposes, not charitable?

Our submission that purposes are exclusively charitable, none are political.

However, political activities that are undertaken according to those objects are permissible - (reads out the Charity Commission guidelines):

  • tick, that's us
  • we tick that
  • we tick that
  • no risk of that in our case, we say

A charity must stress its independence, must not give support to a political party or a candidate etc.

This is magnificent!

dworky · 08/11/2022 11:04

Pyjamagame · 08/11/2022 10:53

Gawd, I wish I could listen in. Bloody rules about living outside the UK.

Thanks for all the info, much appreciated.

You can read here: www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 11:01

KM says no political purposes. All purposes are charitable.

However, political activities are acceptable as part of the charity's purposes.

Original poster
nauticant · 08/11/2022 11:01

KM is shooting off a warning shot here, whether the Charity Commission should really be forced to engage with masses of evidence about what will be the impacts in the future of the activities of the charities they're looking to register.

OP posts:
LipbalmOrKnickers · 08/11/2022 11:00

The comment appeared as KM was talking about how the case had been reframed by MM as trans vs gc

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 11:00

Andie lolled at whatever KM was saying at the time.

pattihews · 08/11/2022 10:58

I was in but I've now I've just a blank screen.

PicturesOfDogs · 08/11/2022 10:58

My feed keeps freezing but. It sure if it’s just my connection.
Finding this morning far easier to follow along than yesterday morning

Chrysanthemum5 · 08/11/2022 10:58

What did pronoun Andie 'lol' at?

Original poster
nauticant · 08/11/2022 10:56

KM: There is a benefit to the whole community that the rights of all members of the community are protected.

OP posts:
Birdsweepsin · 08/11/2022 10:55

"A purpose may be so manifestly beneficial to the public that it would be absurd to require evidence"

Original poster
nauticant · 08/11/2022 10:54

Now onto public benefit.

OP posts:
FusilliFettler · 08/11/2022 10:54

Goodman’s clerk would have had she/her out by now

LipbalmOrKnickers · 08/11/2022 10:53

Andie (she/her) is off again in the chat box. Wonder if she/her will get booted this time?

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 10:53

LGBA having to apply their funds and resources to this case.

Pyjamagame · 08/11/2022 10:53

Gawd, I wish I could listen in. Bloody rules about living outside the UK.

Thanks for all the info, much appreciated.

AutumnCrow · 08/11/2022 10:51

This is what I was hoping KM would do. Excellent stuff.

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