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Original poster

Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 4

615 replies

nauticant · 07/11/2022 12:40

UPDATE: a transcript of the proceedings has been published and can be found here: lgballiance.org.uk/tribunal-transcript/

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony was heard from 12 to 15 September, and then, following a break, closing submissions are taking place on 7 and 8 November.

[This paragraph is probaby now redundant] To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4633653-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chamber-thread-3?page=31&reply=121335177
Thread 4: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request in order to include the most up to date information.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Original poster
nauticant · 08/11/2022 12:23

Do the KKK provide a service to be used?

Yes, they provide stawmaning services in bogus arguments.

OP posts:
Sidaway · 08/11/2022 12:23

ickky · 08/11/2022 12:21

LGBA do have trans identified persons in their user base.

Show quote history

I expect transwomen attracted to men, and transmen attracted to women, would be welcomed?

BellaAmorosa · 08/11/2022 12:23

ickky · 08/11/2022 12:19

@Datun
no answer as it has not been brought up by either MM Counsel or LGBA.

I would imagine if that scenario happened, they would just direct them to a more appropriate help ie stonewall/gendered intelligence etc.

I doubt they would just slam the phone down.

That is what I would have thought would happen but doesn't say anything on TT. Such a person is heterosexual.
The LGBA do have many trans supporters, though

Signalbox · 08/11/2022 12:22

MargaritaPie · 08/11/2022 12:20

Can people of colour use the KKK?

Can chickens use KFC?

The answer might be a yes but a better question might be would it be in their best interest to do so.

Show quote history

Do the KKK provide a service to be used?

ickky · 08/11/2022 12:21

MargaritaPie · 08/11/2022 12:20

Can people of colour use the KKK?

Can chickens use KFC?

The answer might be a yes but a better question might be would it be in their best interest to do so.

Show quote history

LGBA do have trans identified persons in their user base.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 08/11/2022 12:21

Oh it's maddening. By being a man he self-excludes from the group of 'lesbian'. This service is not for him. Other services are available.

Look, is that the sky on the ground again? No, it's still up in the air as usual. Ffs!

MargaritaPie · 08/11/2022 12:20

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:13

Discussion about whether trans people could use LGBA service.

Can people of colour use the KKK?

Can chickens use KFC?

The answer might be a yes but a better question might be would it be in their best interest to do so.

ickky · 08/11/2022 12:19

@Datun
no answer as it has not been brought up by either MM Counsel or LGBA.

I would imagine if that scenario happened, they would just direct them to a more appropriate help ie stonewall/gendered intelligence etc.

I doubt they would just slam the phone down.

RealFeminist · 08/11/2022 12:18

HUV THEY WON YET

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:18

Charities Act - there is a scheme for making objections. Registration and removed largely together. A person who may be affected by a charity may apply to the CC for it to be removed. Whether to de-register or remove are treated the same. No distinction drawn between them and no basis for a different approach to be made.

Datun · 08/11/2022 12:17

Oh Sorry, cross posted, thanks nauticant

Datun · 08/11/2022 12:16

ickky · 08/11/2022 12:15

I think it was more pointed in that if a man who stated they were a lesbian, phoned the helpline asking for help, would they be allowed to use the service.

What was the answer?

Original poster
nauticant · 08/11/2022 12:16

The question was about "a lesbian with a penis" wanting to use the service which was answered that LGBA would be interested in their world view rather than the nature of the person, but of course in this case "a lesbian with a penis" is by definition going to have an incompatible world view.

OP posts:
ickky · 08/11/2022 12:15

I think it was more pointed in that if a man who stated they were a lesbian, phoned the helpline asking for help, would they be allowed to use the service.

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:13

Discussion about whether trans people could use LGBA service.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 08/11/2022 12:12

Apparently so!

LipbalmOrKnickers · 08/11/2022 12:11

One rule for she/her, one rule for the rest of us - as usual.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 08/11/2022 12:09

I couldn't use my maiden name as my log-in name, but they can use only their first name and dopey pronouns.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 08/11/2022 12:09

Andie.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 08/11/2022 12:08

Andre is an idiot.

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:08

KM - There is nothing wrong the LGBA world view.

ickky · 08/11/2022 12:06

Yes they can't seem to keep the narcissism to themselves this morning.

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:04

Andie must be sitting on she/hers hands.

Original poster
nauticant · 08/11/2022 12:03

What can be seen in the chat though is that there's only one person messing around there and unsurprisingly it's the only observer who has included their preferred pronouns in their name.

OP posts:
ickky · 08/11/2022 12:03

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:02

I think TT are informing court of relevant fact not commenting on proceedings.

They are, but they shouldn't.

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