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Original poster

Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 4

615 replies

nauticant · 07/11/2022 12:40

UPDATE: a transcript of the proceedings has been published and can be found here: lgballiance.org.uk/tribunal-transcript/

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony was heard from 12 to 15 September, and then, following a break, closing submissions are taking place on 7 and 8 November.

[This paragraph is probaby now redundant] To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4633653-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chamber-thread-3?page=31&reply=121335177
Thread 4: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request in order to include the most up to date information.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:36

If it is revealed that there is a gender critical dispute, that opens up all the disputes of this appeal.

I'm not sure what his point is.

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:35

Granular means descending into minute detail. This is not a granular dispute.

ickky · 08/11/2022 12:35

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 08/11/2022 12:33

Do chickens have the ability to access KFC and purchase food?

Marg finally solved the age old riddle. The chicken crossed the road because it wanted a party bucket.

They are Claw Lickin' Good

LipbalmOrKnickers · 08/11/2022 12:35

I didn't like the one yesterday TastefulRainbowUnicorn - the whole business of the obsfucation of language to the point where we need clarification of terms everyone understands (to the extent that it is the actual name of one of the groups of respondents) makes my teeth itch.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 08/11/2022 12:33

Do chickens have the ability to access KFC and purchase food?

Marg finally solved the age old riddle. The chicken crossed the road because it wanted a party bucket.

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:32

Oh his voice, I am falling asleep already.

CC has finite resources. Tribunal is concerned with correct approach in law. CC will limit it's observations tribunal should interpret law.

ickky · 08/11/2022 12:31

FriendofJoanne · 08/11/2022 12:30

What did he ask?

Fuck knows.

BellaAmorosa · 08/11/2022 12:30

The question and claim about LGBA's world view being exclusionary actually undermines MM's claim to have standing in the case because it shows there is little overlap in the client base, surely?

FriendofJoanne · 08/11/2022 12:30

What did he ask?

LipbalmOrKnickers · 08/11/2022 12:29

Good grief.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 08/11/2022 12:29

He did, Lipbalm...

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:29

Does he mean Fair Play?

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 08/11/2022 12:29

I don’t like this assistant judge’s questions! I know you’re not supposed to draw any conclusions from judge questions but… is he captured? Penisbians 🙄

Original poster
nauticant · 08/11/2022 12:28

KM: Mermaids seek that to argue that LGBA's objects are not true and they've have uncovered the the true arguments, but they swerve around arguing there's a "sham" because they wouldn't succeed, they make insinuations conspiracy and an intent deceive the CC, they stigmatise LGBA's views on sexual orientation, and say they are used to signal something [presumably sinister], and LBGA view this as homophobic, and that it pushes LGB people who identify as same-sex attracted back in the closet.

OP posts:
ickky · 08/11/2022 12:28

KM submissions over, now back to MG. 😴

LipbalmOrKnickers · 08/11/2022 12:28

Did he just say playfair for women?

Ameanstreakamilewide · 08/11/2022 12:28

Beautifully put, i think.

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:27

LGB - the love that cannot say it's name

VestofAbsurdity · 08/11/2022 12:26

Can chickens use KFC?

Do chickens have the ability to access KFC and purchase food?

Honestly @MargaritaPie you really are plumbing the deep, deep depths of absurdity now.

The answer might be a yes but a better question might be would it be in their best interest to do so.

Leave it to the people who know what they are doing and talking about to decide this.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 08/11/2022 12:26

Very good. Surely they'd have to prove and quantify loss too?

chilling19 · 08/11/2022 12:25

Being upset is also a shit argument in regards to standing

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:25

MM claim they might suffer financial loss by sharing donations.

KM - They have no legal right to not share donations.

(paraphrased)

Signalbox · 08/11/2022 12:24

Financial loss is such a shit argument.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 08/11/2022 12:24

Oh yeah, they have a freephone number to call in times of KKK-related emergencies. 🙄

Marg -is clutching at straws again

WallaceinAnderland · 08/11/2022 12:24

Claim that LGBA activities impede MM by seeking to undermine MM charitable activities.

That is not one of LGBA's objects. MM would have to prove.