Queens for the Night

And as for the suggestions in the thread that PP might not 'get it' - what exactly is there to 'get'? It's pretty much what you see is what you get. I'm in my 50s, I saw drag in my 20s when it was more niche. I've seen it explode over the years. I certainly 'get' it,

Quite - why can't they dress up as spectacular animals, or aliens? Why always a diva/abrasive woman?

The straight men last night could even have dressed up as a really stereotyped camp gay man? But oh wait that would be beyond the pale, in a way that parodying women is not.

Imagine a show where a bunch of women (straight, lesbian, whatever) dressed up like the cast of the Village People and sang songs, shoved socks down their trousers, and used stereotyped effeminate gestures and voices. I can't see that being approved as a programme somehow.

I have lost all ability to tolerate any of this stuff and trying to normalise it makes me so angry. Someone introduced themselves as Cheryl Hole on day time radio the other day , with no comment from anyone about why they adopted that name.

Drag was okay* when it was a specific form of adult entertainment and the actors worked hard at it and were funny eg Lily Savage, but now it's a fad where half the shows at our local theatres are based on it and I'm sorry but most of the performers are really crap and just jumping on a bandwagon. There's no quality control in the acts, it's just a case of putting on anything drag-related because it's seen as trendy. Hence this awful pile of rubbish.

As for Lorraine Kelly, I remember that disgusting interview she did with John Barrowman where she basically fed him excuses for his disgusting sex-pest antics. I wouldn't watch anything she was in.

*I understand this will put me at odds with most of mumsnet but imo there were funny, talented artists back in the day

Why do drag artists use the term 'fishy' when talking about themselves as women? Because they respect us so much?

Of course it's parodying women! But like OP said, not to offend us, because women don't feature here, outside of being the object of men's parodying gaze. Initially it was a sub group of homosexual men's gazes, now heterosexual men can join in. If they're man enough.

The acts traditionally very much took the piss out of women - again, as viewed through the eyes of a sub group of homosexual men.

A lot of names and/or "jokes" made reference to women's genitals, in less than favourable terms both in terms of how they look and also - apparently - smell. By men who were not attracted to women.

A significant trend in drag has been the degradation of women. Not the only, or whole one, but one of the trends. All the while being barely camouflaged as art, because they lip sync ok and the hair/wig and makeup are incredible. Some are very skilfully done, definitely not all are though!

It's also not like women dressing up as men, that's too broad. It's like lesbians dressing up as men, choosing punny names related to men's testicles or penis, suggesting how disgusting/dirty they are. Then doing a show that portrays men in a negative stereotypical way (bro-culture, emotionally obtuse, etc). And then being on prime time television spots because the way they make false beards and bushy eyebrows and thicken their jaw line and even put on an Adam’s apple is art. As is their lip syncing to whatever.

It would never happen. Why? Because there's NO WAY the average man would - either now or over the past 20 years as drag has risen it's profile, find it artful and entertaining to be parodied almost exclusively by lesbians.

Livesensation It’s nothing of the sort. My point, in the context of the discussion on this thread, is that a man is appropriating a word ascribed to a woman. I’m well aware that gay men have called themselves queens for decades.

Funny how becoming your authentic self requires an entire make-up counter.

Big up capitalism. So authentic! 😍

….gives them a chance to have confidence and be someone completely different- who they want to be

Why is it that the ‘someone’ is always a ‘woman’ though?

It simply never occurred to me that the pain of years of lesbophobic bullying at school could be erased by dressing and acting as a drag queen.

Can't see it will help. I sadly suspect for gay men that the catharsis is in the punching down on another group.

It doesn't take the piss out of women tho

Yes it does because they are pretending to be women but everything they do is a parody of a woman.

I do “get it” and I do find it offensive.

It’s nearly always the same look. Large false boobs, overkill make up, frilly/shiny/plunging/stereotypical clothes, parody hair, sexual innuendo names.

What element of that as a woman am I going to find funny? Is it searing insight into women’s lives? A reversal to demonstrate the ridiculous stereotypes often expected of women? A compliment to our “femininity”?

I seriously doubt any of the men on that show set out to offend women, as they wouldn’t have given women a second thought.

It doesn't take the piss out of women tho. It's comedy yes but not to offend women and as a woman I'm not offended.

If you are I respect that. I get what you're saying about lesbians and I can't answer that- maybe they should? But then would men be offended? I doubt it.

It's entertaining at the end of the day- their comedy and wit is also very central to it. Yes they are dressed as women but that makes the act different to a normal comedian or entertainer.

I don’t think anyone is saying that “everything is done to offend women” 🙄 but dressing up
as women to take the piss kind of is…where’s the equivalent women dressing up as sterotyped men in plaid shirts and grunting?

Whilst getting ready for work the other day ,the lorraine k show was on in the background , simon gregson said he thought he looked like eddie izzard whilst in drag , lorraine then refered to eddie as "HE" looked like a dear in headlights , then brought eddie back up again this time saying "SHE" , even lorraine doesnt believe what they are saying and knows full well that eddie is male

If you don't get the humour then you don't get it- it's not for everyone.

But drag is also an art. The amount of work that goes into creating a drag queen is epic. And obviously the characters are larger than life which is the opposite from what they were growing up. You'll find a lot of people who do drag found it tough growing up due to their sexuality and being discriminated against/ bullied/ disowned by family or friends and this gives them a chance to have confidence and be someone completely different- who they want to be. Again- you may not get it and that's fine.

But not everything is about misogyny or done to offend women.

Are you sure?

Drag is nothing to do with misogyny or woman face

Women drag queens do exist- the just don't have them on this show.

I lasted five minutes then had to turn off. Couldn't bear to watch any more.

And I can't believe the love it's getting on Twitter.

It's just vile 😡

Sounds totally horrendous, really grim and regressive. Lorraine Kelly is really backing the wrong horse here