How many transwomen/trans girls detransition?

Kind of proves my point really.

I sincerely hope there is robust, evidence based research happening. Because that has not happened to date. Regardless of which side you come at this, people should be appalled by that.

I'm in favour of more research but this study is reassuring. I don't find the irreversible pathway argument persuasive. All blockers do it block puberty, they don't make a teenager who is biologically male want to grow breasts or a teenage girl who is biologically female want to grow a beard. And they don't contain some mystical essence that means when that starts happening once hormones are proscribed they are happy about those changes due to some lingering effects of the puberty blockers they were on. Puberty blockers are not associated with a desire to transition when used for precocious puberty. Occam's Razor suggests that the reason these kids have started on and stayed on hormones is that they are trans and the assessment protocols are working.

I thinks it's easy to over interpret this study. It can be used to support more than one argument depending on your perspective. When it actually doesn't have sufficient detail for anything other than confirming that the majority of the children who started blockers go onto hormones. It is not a properly evidence based trial of the treatment of the children.

I would say using it to support an argument on rates of detransition could be called disingenuous at best.

No don't be ridiculous, I'm saying equating rape with the language of mental health is ableist. The implication in the statement that in a sane world no-one would get raped implies that insane people - that is those with a mental health condition - are the ones committing rape.

Apologies that should say "in 30 years in some cases experimental".

That study isn't about the Tavistock. I think it's a bit alarmist to call a treatment model that has been in use for almost 30 years in some cases alarmist particularly when it involves a drug proscribed to tens of thousands of children with precocious puberty for decades. And off label use is very common in paediatric healthcare.

"Galileo Galilei skirted nowhere near to being executed. The main problem was that he was enthusiastically promoting an then-unproven theory which went both against scripture and against the scientific knowledge of the time. The secondary problem was that in promoting that theory he was incredibly, offensively rude to the Pope."
OMG
"promoting an then-unproven theory which went both against scripture and against the scientific knowledge of the time"
care to explain "scientific knowledge of the time"???
I think you are getting very very very very very very confused between scientific knowledge and religious belief.
"The secondary problem was that in promoting that theory he was incredibly, offensively rude to the Pope." and ????? being offended is not a vaild reason to kill someone.
I could not ask for a worse argument to what I said than what you said, to the point if somone accused me of using your account as being a false flag sock puppet of mine it would be very difficult for me to prove otherwise.
You really need to look at what you wrote and think about it.
"Galileo Galilei skirted nowhere near to being executed"
His arse was well over the line, he was very close to being killed for upsetting the applecart.

Are you saying women should be raped to appease mens' mental health?

@FirstandLastBorn technically it was an amendment to the gra and some health law (cant remember exactly) that specifically allowed the linking of all the medical records and numbers of individuals who have obtained a grc aswell as patients who were allowed to change name sec marker and NHS number without a GRC and do so without the patients permission (which is the main reason for the amendment).
There was massive negligence by the Tavistock for not keeping records, following up or even attaining permission for such from patients, however a large part of it is down to the NHSs/Stonewalls interpretation of the gra that gives anonymity to people who have a GRC and extending that to those without and the anonymity clause in the GRA

t87% in this report

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-020-01660-8

Lets remind ourselves that this treatment is experimental and 'off-label'.

Are you saying there would be no rape if no-one had a mental health problem? It's the use of the word sane which is the problem.

No, in a sane world no women would be raped. It is not troubling to want to stop women being raped.

What a fucking thing to say.

All of the treatments for children are based on the original Dutch cohort of 70 or so children. One of the lead authors, Annelou de Vries, has admitted she doesn’t know where a significant proportion of those patients are now as adults. We know one died, aged 18 from complications of a vaginoplasty.

No one with any confidence can say what the detransition rate is. This is the problem: patients, particularly children, can’t be consented properly without this to guide their decision making process.

Anyone who is “confident” the rate is anything, particularly as low as 1-2%, is putting the answer before the question which is notoriously bad science.

Very few kids referred to the Tavistock are proscribed puberty blockers, around 5% according to the most recent data we have, so people shouldn't be put off seeking help for gender dysphoric children if they are worried about that.

A study that found people were not going onto hormones or coming off them very quickly would be more troubling and suggest problems with the assessment process - this is reassuring data but I agree longer term follow ups are needed and they are now being implemented. There's a huge amount of research going on currently into all aspects of youth transition.

I would welcome some research into this. I have a ftm dc who is now questioning their current identity . The pressure they have been under from activists has been enormous. I refused mermaids and latterly the Tavistock however absolutely no one ever asked about their history of being bullied, attacked or poor mental health. My young adult no longer wants surgery or hormones. Only now at 19 do they understand these changes would have been permenant. Five years of grooming and secret forums nearly cost them their life. The more we question this the more people will have choices and the right to question these puppet masters.

What I took from the study is that the majority of teenagers who started puberty blockers go on to hormones.

It's not really evidence on detransitioning or not. Because the children who started in the study are just adults at the end of the study and just starting physical transition.

If they were interested in detransitioning, presumably the study would need to run another few years.

That research was blocked because he couldn't guarantee the confidentiality of participants. It was rejected by two ethics committees and a review board I believe and this decision was endorsed by the courts.

I think equating women not being raped with 'sanity' is actually pretty troubling and ableist.

But happy to drop this now and discuss detransition.

Good prompt to get this back on topic!

5 Years ago (how time flies!)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41384473

I don’t know any women who would even consider using racist or homophobic language. Who on earth do you hang around with?

if you think using the word ‘sane’ is more problematic than women prisoners being raped, you are not a feminist.

Well, I'll pop back just the once.

Forgive me for being naive, but why is researching this not encouraged?

Look at this thread. It was started to discuss transwomen/trans girls and detransition. Then look at the trans activist who is all over it trying to make it about anything other than a discussion of detransition.

Detransition is to trans activists what garlic is to vampires.

So you wouldn't have a problem with a woman using overtly racist or homophobic language?

How can you tell what I see and what I don’t see?

I’m a big fan of not tone or language policing other women - I consider it an essential part of my feminist praxis.

I'm glad you can see the problem with her language then.