How many transwomen/trans girls detransition?

Why mum's net allows men's rights activists who are simply here to derail and troll any discussion of the harms of the gender industry is beyond me. These men seem to spend their days hoping to speak over women.

It's like Twitter wasn't enough for them because women left in the thousands to try to talk to each other. So here They are because sexist women hating men need to silence women.

Transgender trend have some excellent stats and detransitioners voices, and Keira bell and her case against the tavistock is a great place to understand the way vulnerable children are pushed into life long damaging surgeries and drug dependencies by organisations who are failing to provide proper safeguarding.

If you are a mum of a vulnerable girl reading this thread , protect her from any treatment other than mental health supports and read what Keira has to say about her journey. The tavistock was shut down for good reason and positive outcomes are few and far between. She's just a vulnerable girl, beautiful in who she is, she doesn't need to change her body to fit in with sexist stereotypes because they make all girls uncomfortable because they are shitty..
Lead by example show her that a natural woman doesn't need make up and dresses and heels and she can be a mechanic, plumber, poet dancer, engineer, gardener without cutting anything off.

All true, but of course missing the bit about how the child can't possibly be competent to determine whether puberty blockers are a good idea until - at minimum - they have gone through puberty, allowed their brain to fully develop, and begun to explore their adult bodies and sexuality.

I'd imagine that there are plenty of happy adults who have had a stroke. That in itself has precisely zero evidential value on questions like -

(1) Is having a stroke a good thing?
(2) Are people who have had strokes happier than those who haven't?
(3) Would people who have had strokes been happier had they not had a stroke?

TRAs claim less than 1% detransition

Because gender clinics say this from a position of authority based on data from the original Dutch cohort who were asked if they regretted their gonadectomy one year on. TRAs latch onto this authority and repeat it, gender clinics don’t urge caution about such a figure because it would undermine their whole existence and voilà! Perfect storm of lies.

The reality is no one knows, but 1% is likely to be an underestimation.

It shouldn’t even matter anyway. Even if it’s “just” 1%, due to the numbers of children who have now been placed on puberty blockers around the world, this is hundreds of children who have no way back. The fact the number is likely higher means we are talking thousands of children irrevocably sterilised and rendered sexually dysfunctional for life.

TRAs don’t care about these people.

TRAs claim less than 1% detransition, but how would they know? There seems to be more and more reports of young women regretting their transition, and there's bound to be even more who quietly detransition without announcing it on social media.

@Hoardasurass

happy as my gender non conforming autistic self

I want to give you a big hug (or if you don't hug, a solid nod) for this, for you and for all the other gender non conforming autistic/ND women I have had the pleasure of knowing over the years.

It breaks my heart to think a generation of wonderful women who should be happy as their gender non conforming autistic selves are instead being lead to believe that there's something broken in them, that their own selves are so far from being women, so unacceptable as women that they must really be failed men who need medical intervention to fix their female body into a facsimile of a male.

It makes me sad and furious.

@GivenitupGerty I'm glad that you're daughter is doing so much better and that she has such a strong supportive mum.
I agree wholeheartedly with Stella. I'm an autistic gender non conforming abuse survivor who was looking for a way to both fit in and escape from my changing body and abuse. Sadly most of my group were the same. Thankfully the only treatment in the late 80s was watchful waiting otherwise I wouldn't be a mum or happy as my gender non conforming autistic self.

@Hoardasurass
Thank you for your story.
My dd is not interested in surgery now. She didn't get told about the botched operations or the lasting pain. I actually went out and found it all. She still uses a masculine name with her friends and wears mainly men's clothes but she accepts she is a female. I wish that others didn't push her to identify as a ftm. She did have counselling but she didn't want to discuss gender. We were offered a surgical pathway by one clinician 15 minutes into meeting him. I am sorry to stay I didn't support her seeing him again. It is interesting that as her mental health has improved her plans have changed. Counselling is not conversation therapy but a prudent way of dealing with trauma.
I have read some sound bites today by Stella OMalley and she seems to be saying trauma and undiagnosed neuro diversity is a major factor in trans children. I'd pay her to shout that a bit louder.

Glad it's not just me!

@livvyposts yet again you are misrepresenting things watchful waiting therapy for gender dysphoria IS NOT CONVERSION THERAPY.
It is helpful not harmful. I know this for a fact having gone through it myself. You work through all your underlying issues (which normally resolves the gender dysphoria) then work on having REALISTIC goals and outcomes and finally that no matter what you change about yourself you CAN NOT change your sex and help you come to terms with and accept that FACT.
The people I know who went through therapy at the same time as me who went on to transition (2out of 14 in my group) are happy and healthy (mentally not so much physically) and are happy in themselves and are greatfull for the therapy and outcomes they had. They also don't get "triggered" my being misgendered, needing prostate exams, seeing the words women/woman or pregnant women/woman nor by being refused access to women's single sex spaces.

And there is no evidence therapy works despite the huge cost (Stella O Malley charges £200 an hour). In fact most people report that therapy that seeks to cure someone of being trans is deeply harmful and evidence shows it is associated with negatove outcomes.

Lol at a trans activist arguing for evidence-based care.

I’m so glad to hear your DD made it through her exams and is able to move forward to university!

Unfortunately, for a number of teens the temporarytrans cul de sac takes up a massive amount of headspace and energy and puts them at risk of derailment re: GCSE and A level, knocking them off the trajectory they were on before the new identity was announced.
Perhaps in some cases the grade derailment is the subconscious objective and the identity is a functional behaviour to excuse the dropped grades, rather than the other way around?
Crikey knows we have generations of incredibly clever girls who resort to self harm or develop eating disorders due to teenage pressures of perfection (whether they be specific pressures from parents/teachers or general pressures from societal messaging).

Well done to the pragmatic headteacher for holding his nerve and making enough space for your DD to manage both her temporary identity and her schoolwork. If only we could bottle that and send it to every school!

Free and very low cost therapy is available through Genspec.

The costs incurred by the NHS in facilitating gender transition are also going to be high so your ‘NHS should do it’ is an oversimplification.

Everything the NHS funds has to be costed and justified, across every specialism, the number of procedures the NHS considers value for money is dwindling for everyone.

NHS care needs to be evidence based and NICE certainly isn’t convinced that the current model is effective, let alone good value for money.
Very few practitioners seem to be interested in making gender a specialism either (look at MtF genital surgery as an example - Thomas recently passed away, Morley retired, Bellringer is reaching retirement age soon, that will leave only Larner, Coker and Rashid in NHS practice and Siepp in private (Inglefield is currently not operating while awaiting a continuation of his GMC disciplinary). The situation is even worse for FtM surgery as there is only one team and they’ve lost a couple of surgeons due to disciplinaries.

The NHS can’t force a doctor into training in this field and tendering contracts out doesn’t result in any suitable applicants. Even the NHS moonlighters (eg Gendercare doctors) don’t want their private practices to be paid for by NHS contracts (which is why there is no ‘right to choose’ for medical/social transition).

the only way for transition services to attract new providers is via financial incentive - the NHS has pay structures for all doctors so the incentive just isn’t there. Throw it open to a purely commercial marketplace and you’d probably get more surgeons interested (although perhaps not for the sorts of reasons you’d want a doctor to be motivated by).

The whole GIC system needs an overhaul, I agree, the current ‘gatekeeping’ is pointless because it’s a shelled out husk of what it used to be… but I suspect the long term results of that overhaul will be no NHS surgical procedures, but perhaps increased access to hormones - who knows, perhaps we’ll even end up with female sex HRT available over the counter to anyone who pays for it, as in Portugal,
(Testosterone is a controlled substance so that will have to stay prescription only).

I foresee a future where trans surgeries are classified as cosmetic body modifications and are entirely self-funded, same as facelifts and tattoos. WPATH jumped the shark by including the Eunuch chapter, so it’s no
longer able to pose as a credible organisation.

The other thing I wanted say we had a very mixed response whilst in secondary school. Most teachers were great. My dd chose a non binary name and was very militant if not called by it! We told her off because the new teacher was worried about being disciplined. One headmaster frequently forgot but he ignored her rants, uniform transgressions and got her through her GCSEs.
He asked me the other day what was her chosen name these days. He never believed she was a ftm but never wavered in his support. Unlike the teacher in her expensive private school who hounded her out. We ask alot of our teachers. If you are a teacher with an open mind, I thank you.
My dd is off to university, hopefully it will be easier for her there.

All the more reason to improve NHS trans healthcare so people are no longer forced to rely on private providers.

And there is no evidence therapy works despite the huge cost (Stella O Malley charges £200 an hour). In fact most people report that therapy that seeks to cure someone of being trans is deeply harmful and evidence shows it is associated with negatove outcomes.

I've been itching to say this

Thank you, bloody phones.

@TheClogLady
Exactly right.
I belive you helped me some years ago.
Lots of the forums will not allow any contra argument.

@AlisonDonut
I am sorry I wasn't having a pop at you. I was thanking you for your wise words. I have an old phone jumping around and due to having to post under a spare name I should have given a gap in my monologue!

We dont know how many people detransition, nor how that changes over time. Those put on puberty blockers then cross sex hormones for extended periods do not experience a normal puberty, a time crucial in brain development. It is not known what impact this will have on their brains - will they ever become adult?

The full consequences of their decision to transition will often not become apparent for many years and once realised it may seem like there is no way back so they have to stay as they are. There may be a lot more regret than there is detransition.

sometimes us mums of genderdistressed kids have a sort of bubble over moment and misdirect our emotions - our rage is really for social media influencers and algorithms, right on teachers and exploitative medical practitioners/drug companies.

Feminist women deffo are not our enemies but FWR is one of the few places we can talk about things openly.

Don’t give up, you are one of my favourite straight talking posters!

@AlisonDonut Unless you have direct experience of your DD wanting a mastectomy and their genitalia re fashioned you have no idea how devastating this is. We had no previous clues. Our DD was the Queen of pink.

Don't know why you are having a pop at me, I'm totally gutted that all the hard work we women put into doing non gender conforming things has resulted in girls having their breasts removed. I know it is devastating, fucking hell I spend half my spare time pointing out on here how fucked up this all is.

Honestly. I don't know why I bother.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen
Thank you.
@AlisonDonut Unless you have direct experience of your DD wanting a mastectomy and their genitalia re fashioned you have no idea how devastating this is. We had no previous clues. Our DD was the Queen of pink.
What did happen to her at 12 was a sexual attack and then huge mental health issues. She still wears baggy clothes. However she has a boyfriend and could never look like a man.
5 years on she doesn't want hormones and wants her own children naturally.
The amount of aggressive shit she was subjected to on Internet forums was heartbraking. Her original thoughts were it was easier to be a boy. Her intellectual ability made her a target for activists. Luckily she saw through them. One told her she couldn't paint her nails! Bloody nowt to do with gender. My family has been through hell with other people pushing their genda on a traumatised kid. Only 5% given hormones? I don't believe that. Thank you for pointing out the shocking truth of what is happening.

And the cloglady put it better, because she did the maths

Aside from some pretty well known drs making lots of money from transition surgeries, wont name them as my post might disappear.

Drug companies like getting £40 a month from lifetime subscribers. Its good business sense innit.
I have asthma and it's not going anywhere so for the rest of my life I need inhalers, at a permanent cost to me and a permanent income to the drug company.

Or we shall (not because I'm full of covid) do the math
£40 now, that will increase with cost of living and new drugs and generally as everything increases cost over time, times how many people? Up thread it was mooted up to 500k people, less detrans. Quite a lot of moolah really for many years into the future.
Then add on any drugs needed to treat the stuff brought on by puberty blockers like osteoporosis and tooth loss, those being the two I remember I know theres more. When you add it up, it's really a lot of money.