The police

@stillvicarinatutu if you are genuine could I suggest you read the "non-rapes" thread over on feminism chat. In among all those horrific stories, observe how Felix behaves and the arrogance and complete lack of compassion or empathy on display. Maybe then you'll understand why some of us do not believe he is acting with women's interests in mind.

Well, Felix, a good approach to questions like that might be to ask - how did we avoid arresting people for thought crimes 20 years ago? How do they avoid it in other places where it isn't a problem?

Maybe a good start would be stop giving training that misrepresents the law, and science, and start giving some pretty serious training on the nature of civil liberties.

I think Felix is simply attempting to explain- not mansplain- the challenges of policing. I don't see him as the enemy because I understand much of what he is saying but I guess that's from the perspective of being in policing which no one else in this thread is .

@stillvicarinatutu i don't always agree with you but i'm always pleased to see you around.

Talking about the Farrow case can you explain to us in very simple words that mere civilian ladies can understand: the person reporting her, and other women, is a serial reporter of women who have done nothing wrong. Serial. Over and over. Why isn't he immediately questioned about exactly what the fuck he is up to?

Felix is disingenuously talking over everyone, at everyone and if i see one more "but even though they have 76 speeding fines, we can't say they're a menace and they should deffo be allowed in the force because we're all fab yah boo sucks to you" (in essence)

The Farrow case was mentioned a while back and it was eluded that the police should not have taken the reporting person seriously in this case and should not have even spoken to Farrow let alone arrest her.
So - if the police service is to improve on things like this - I am asking the question:
At what point do the police ignore the initial call?
At what point do we class the caller as a person who is just a serial complainer and is probably lying and can be ignored, in the Farrow case for example?
Is it the number of convictions/incidents against them of dishonesty offences?
Is the number of cases they have reported that have not resulted in a prosecution?

We'll ask the pertinent question here: the person who reported her is a SERIAL REPORTER of women. Serial. What are you doing about him?

Its a discussion forum..... to discuss things.

you're talking at us not discussing. We see you @Felix125

My broadband has been down so I've just got back to this thread. I wasn't going to bother but I am livid at your response to my post : 13/11/2022 16:52 :

He was arrested for malicious communications - there is no such offence of ’re-tweeting a meme’;
You have to establish what the original call to the police was by the reporting person - and what that reporting person was disclosing that required a police response.
Is this a job that fell onto the non-emergency event queue and was being dealt with ‘as and when’; - probably so, as the article doesn't
state that police attended on an immediate response.
Is there a bigger back story to this which you are not aware of. Look at the man I arrested for wishing his ex-partner ‘all the best’; on social media. That was a job I had initially collected off the event queue - was I wrong to arrest him as he declared on his social media account? After all, it was a non offensive comment he made.

My response
I asked you if you were aware of the case I drew your attention to, you didn't say yes so I assume you aren't. Earlier I asked if you were aware of the Harry Miller case, again you didn't answer. Actually I doubt if you even looked at the links. Instead you simply repeat ‘it's all so complicated’ in an attempt to defend the reputation of the police.

I am going to explain this as simply as I possibly can.
Firstly what I said was ‘Arrests made leading to no further action for the heinous action of retweeting a meme.’ Action not crime because there was not a crime, that is the point. Here is what should have happened.

Police receive complaint about an ‘offensive' tweet. (not harassment or abuse)
Police read the tweet.
Police consider whether it meets the threshold of the crime of malicious communication or harassment.
Police check the connection with the complainant, was it sent to them, is it about them, do they have any personal connection to the tweeter?

At this point there is nothing to ‘investigate’ the evidence is the tweet, the tweeter is known, and there is no significant connection to the complainant.
What is then necessary is determining the next step giving due regard to the human right of the tweeter to freedom of speech and the urgency.
(Job written off at source without deployment I.e. the first stage according to you.)

This is what should have happened to this complaint. The police should have said to the complainant ‘ We understand you feel offended or made unsafe by this tweet, however it does not meet the threshold of a crime and therefore we cannot take any further action. In this country we do not police people's legitimate freedom of speech or offer them words of advice'

Instead these officers harassed and intimidated a member of the public with no justification even trying to bully him into attending a course at his own expense. These officers abused their power and instead of calling them out you want to give them the benefit of the (imaginary) doubt.

I don't know about suicidal pupils as it's never come up seeing as the age group I work in it's not really an issue.
I do know that we are not allowed to chase runaways in case we accidentally chase them into oncoming traffic etc.

I brought up that comparison because when something goes wrong schools and education take responsibility and directly address the issues.

They don't tell women to flag down fucking buses.

Personally I'd be embarrassed to defend that kind of incompetence but you do you.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn
And where have I done that then?
I have repeatedly stated that any cop with a criminal history should be gone
I have also suggested using intelligence to get rid of them, but posters on here suggest we shouldn't do that.

TenPointsFromHufflepuff
How is it de-railed - I have answered your post on schools:

Schools have robust safeguarding policies though and external regular investigations. Safeguarding fails by schools have resulted in changes in policy and system overhaul.

And suggested that this is not happening in some schools - but you have not answered that - ref, suicidal children being allowed to walk out and the teachers/staff can't stop them. Not very good safeguarding policy i would suggest

MangyInseam
And I have said that there are failings in the police - so I am asking the question:

If the police are to adopt a new way of dealing with things like this. So say the public want a better way for the police to deal with a future Farrow type case - I am asking how we would do this?

Is there a cut off where we refuse to help a caller with a track record and assume that they are lying from the onset.

Would it be a certain number of convictions?
A certain number of failed prosecutions? intelligence on them? What would it be - that's all I'm asking

Because it has to be the same for everyone - we can't just pick and chose who this is aimed at

AlisonDonut
Still haven't answered the above points - but are you here to just push people's buttons?

I don't feel that way about the police at all. I don't think most posters do. And people generally are aware that dealing with the public can be quite fraught.

And frankly in general, while sometimes explanations of why certain procedures happen the way they do, or lead to certain outcomes, can be useful, I don't generally find that the ones Felix gives are. They don't add to understanding the problem because he doesn't seem to understand what people are actually complaining about.

The complaint isn't that if they receive a complaint there is some kind of obligation to take it seriously. It's that a situation has been allowed where the police are being used to persecute certain individuals, that there are people being persecuted for thought crimes (!), and that police services are being given training by organizations that are politically biased and acting on that advice. And for the most part there seems to be no one at the top of these organizations cracking down on this stuff.

It might be one thing to have some person arrested stupidly for what are clearly legally acceptable opinions, if it was then sorted out by the leadership. But that is not what is happening.

Excuses about technical procedures totally miss the point and really are just that - excuses.

I think Felix is simply attempting to explain- not mansplain- the challenges of policing. I don't see him as the enemy because I understand much of what he is saying but I guess that's from the perspective of being in policing which no one else in this thread is .
From what I see he's a pretty seasoned long in the tooth cop with some nouse and not afraid to make some waves when necessary. I've never seen him defend bad policing. I think he tends to fight a losing battle on the fwr board as do I often . The job we do seems to make us the enemy first and foremost and it doesn't seem to matter what the facts are or what our position is . I get the feeling anyone in the establishment is the enemy and not to be trusted , listened to , we must be taken the piss out of , shouted down , patronised and vilified no matter what's said . That's the impression I get . I've posted on plenty of fwr board threads now where I've made my position clear on gender and the TRA agenda. Yet - I'm still the enemy . And that's fine . I do keep trying on the fwr board ....and I will continue to post because these are issues that matter to me whether you "like" me or not . I try to read and engage because I'm eager to learn what these issues are , and I feed back to the people that can change it . It's sometimes hard to
Stay sympathetic when being insulted left right and centre, but I do keep trying . I don't post here in my working hours so my down time is quite precious. I do get enough flak at work without getting more recreationally . I think that was another accusation wasn't it ? Are we posting while at work ? No . I aren't . As if I have time to post on mn ! I dont get time for a piss most shifts , let alone a lunch break or a tea break . That's funnier than Felix trying to engage to be honest . 😂

Pahaha that ship sailed when Felix started manspaning all over it.
This thread has been pretty much derailed with napalt and whataboutery and is a pretty good illustration of what happens when women try to 'kick up a fuss'.
It's good as a live demonstration of how tone deaf and unselfaware some officers can be though, so kudos there.

Felix - despite being a male - appears to be on the side of good

Felix does nothing but minimise and deflect and gaslight on any thread I've seen him on. Oh yeah, and complain about safeguarding. That seems to be 100% of everything he's got to contribute. I've never seen him acknowledge that the egregious police behaviour highlighted on threads here is out of line or that there are terrifying double standards operating against women; he's got a particular habit of comparing Tweets that hurt some man's ego to stalking behaviors and saying stuff along the lines of 'well what do you want the police to do, not "crime" stalkers? that could get someone killed.'

I remember mentally lumping you and Felix together in previous threads because you were agreeing with him so much, and frankly it horrified me. But then you showed that you actually do listen and think about the issues and take on board what people are saying here.

And before this just descends into a two person argument I'm going to disengage as it does a disservice to the wider discussion.

I think the fact you're trying to be antagonistic says more about you .

I am pretty calm in most situations.
Part of the job.

Doesn't take much to push your buttons does it?

Felix - despite being a male - appears to be on the side of good .

You have absolutely no idea what I've done for women in 14 years of this job - and I don't really expect you to care . But practically, I've probably done more to help female victims than most people in the woulda shoulda coulda squad . Of which you are probably one .

I've been posting a bit on the fwr board but it's always been difficult and hostile due to my job - there is a very - biased ? Blinkered? View of the police - it almost mirrors what you say you are fighting against which I find ironic .

Not all police officers are the enemy. I was attempting to engage because I am a woman and happen to do this job that's so hated .
I mistakenly thought maybe an adult discussion could take place .

I mistakenly thought some insight from a police perspective might actually be of use .

Not a problem, if I am not welcome to post or talk to the posters on this topic . That's fine .

You have way more of an agenda than I do . I can feel the hostility- it's palpable. I was simply trying to talk about these issues ,

You are hostile from the get go despite me agreeing with much of what's said . I've done loads of reading into the Harry millar and Caroline farrow cases and I cannot defend what's happened to them . And I won't . I'm simply trying to talk to you . You don't know me , I do t know
You , I'm guessing you wouldn't be this hostile at a mn meet up . Or maybe you're very prejudiced?

Is that not what you're fighting against?

🤔

I've never high fived someone whilst discussing a woman who has been the victim of a multi year long sustained harasement campaign supported and enacted by the police. But I'm pathetic yes. You go girl.

That's pretty pathetic tbh .

I'm an adult . Human female .
And I act like one .

We know where the loyalty lies, that's clear. I'm not going to bitch about anyone behind their backs, I'm happy to say it to your face. No secret bitching group here. That's a police thing, obviously.

I was showing solidarity to a fellow like minded officer .

I'm not going to keep trying to speak to anyone who is so hostile .
I could tell you exactly what you need to know , I've raised these issues on a police focus group , im a woman tho often on this board people insist I have a penis for reasons known only to them .

If you don't want me muddying you your discussion maybe start a closed group where everyone is free to bitch and do t start a discussion on a public parenting forum if you don't want the subject of the discussion to speak .

Where do these women make a fuss exactly? We can't even talk about it on here without days and days of officers telling us it doesnt happen. Should we just do it quietly and out of the way? Maybe through the medium of mime?

You were the one high fiving your fellow officer a couple of days ago about how fab you both were. Perhaps keep that sort of behaviour for your locker rooms?

I have raised these issues on a police focus group , I am not the enemy here . All I'm trying to do is give a police perspective on a discussion about the police .

I get the feeling it matters not what I say . I'll leave you to it .

Ok

I'm trying to engage in a discussion not be vilified.

I used to work for the police, civilian role in a police station. I don't think you can dismiss people because of their background. Strange things happen, people you would never think would do anything sometimes surprise you. I knew of one case where a man who was in his 60s I think, I am going back to the 80s so can't swear to his age. He seemed not very bright and he was convicted for CSA, he got out of prison and was housed in a council flat. We got intelligence that he had teenagers in and out of his flat. Horror, you can imagine what everyone immediately thought, he was up to his old tricks.

Anyway police did some obs and something didn't seem quite right. They raided the place and he and the kids plus neighbours were interviewed. What was actually happening was a couple of kids found out about his background, befriended him and then blackmailed him that they were going to the police if he didn't do what they wanted. They brought other kids and he was having to provide refreshments and let them use his flat as their meeting place. He was terrified that he was going back to prison but the police did get to the bottom of it and the teenagers got cautions I think and he got some support. Not at all what we thought to start off with.

I'm not making excuses for the police, I worked with 2 who ended up in prison. I shed no tears when I heard about it but the bad apples were definitely a minority back then except for racism, casual racism was rife and for some it wasn't so casual. My DH was the first non white officer in our force way back in the 60s and he didn't have an easy time at all. He can tell some stories and it would probably make a good book.

People (women ) need to kick up more fuss if something is minimised

Oh yeah, kick up a fuss.

Like all the times women go to public places to talk about it and get physically attacked and the police just stand there and watch.

High five.