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Original poster

Scotland's 'feminist foreign policy'

28 replies

ArabellaScott · 04/11/2022 11:56

I'm sure women in Scotland will be heartened to hear of Sturgeon's new 'feminist foreign policy'.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fcd26848-5b94-11ed-9b1f-f7c251e9dfdc?shareToken=fe411889ee09c1a434054f00bf634725

'For Women Scotland, the feminist group that opposes SNP legislation to make it easier for people to change gender, said it was monumentally ironic for the Scottish government to pursue a feminist foreign policy when it “seems determined to render the very word ‘woman’ meaningless in Scottish legislation”.

The group said that the SNP had no moral authority to lecture others on feminism when Sturgeon’s government had fallen short on all the big tests.

It said: “They have failed in promises to introduce the Nordic model to help victims of prostitution and trafficking; they refused to protect women in the hate crime bill; they issue schools guidance which fails to protect the basic dignity of girls; and they continue to wash their hands of responsibility for putting violent male offenders in women’s prisons.'

www.gov.scot/publications/background-note-scotlands-feminist-approach-foreign-policy/

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DameMaud · 05/11/2022 01:58

CharlieParley · 04/11/2022 17:26

The article I quoted is called Why the past ten years of American life have been uniquely stupid. It’s not just a phase. By Jonathan Haidt. You'll find it here.

Thanks for this @CharlieParley . It's a fantastic article. I really admire Jonathon Haidt. I didn't realise he was on the board of Braver Angels. I've watched their stuff on YouTube before. An amazing organisation and I recommend looking at the work they do too.
This is an amazing (but long) interview with the founder.

CharlieParley · 04/11/2022 17:26

The article I quoted is called Why the past ten years of American life have been uniquely stupid. It’s not just a phase. By Jonathan Haidt. You'll find it here.

CharlieParley · 04/11/2022 17:22

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 04/11/2022 16:57

merely women and girls

Oops, there it is.

That's what happens when your go-to experts all drink from the same fountain of knowledge as you.

What I'm puzzled by is how little criticism the Scottish Government gets from across society for the incestuous relationship it has with these groups.

I just read an excellent analysis of the corrosive effect social media has had on democracy in the US and American society in general which I think is relevant to Scotland too. And one of the worst results is that tribal thinking is now elevated by our government as the progressive way to approach anything. And yet:

The most reliable cure for confirmation bias is interaction with people who don’t share your beliefs. They confront you with counterevidence and counterargument. John Stuart Mill said, “He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that,” and he urged us to seek out conflicting views “from persons who actually believe them.” People who think differently and are willing to speak up if they disagree with you make you smarter, almost as if they are extensions of your own brain. People who try to silence or intimidate their critics make themselves stupider, almost as if they are shooting darts into their own brain.

We're seeing that play out right here, where a "feminist" foreign policy report not only uncritically recommends not centering the needs of women and girls, but instead of robust internal debate highlighting the embarrassing stupidity of that idea, they echo that several times.

CharlieParley · 04/11/2022 17:07

RealFeminist · 04/11/2022 13:19

BUT IT HAPPENED IN FOREIGN PARTS

Show quote history

And sadly but unsurprisingly our enlightened government misunderstood what those foreigners were doing with that project.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 04/11/2022 16:57

merely women and girls

Oops, there it is.

zanahoria · 04/11/2022 16:40

"by focusing on marginalised groups more generally"

Let me guess who is the first in the queue.

Would it be the most oppressed people in the whole world ever?

howonearthdidwegethere · 04/11/2022 16:24

Little Miss Fingertips Feminist can shove her "feminist foreign policy" up her bahookie.

waterwitch · 04/11/2022 16:10

Well, they want to redefine ‘woman’ ‘lesbian’ ‘female’ etc, seems reasonable that ‘feminist’ now means something completely different 🙄
😂😂😂

ZandathePanda · 04/11/2022 16:10

RealFeminist · 04/11/2022 15:59

WAIT TIL YE SEE OOR NON BINARY SPACE ROCKET

It’s dangerous even writing that - I just choked on my tea reading it 😂

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/11/2022 16:03

nyan gender nuclear subs to be built at Faslane?

RealFeminist · 04/11/2022 15:59

WAIT TIL YE SEE OOR NON BINARY SPACE ROCKET

RealFeminist · 04/11/2022 14:00

ITS GOING TAE BE INCREDIBLE

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/11/2022 13:57

The majority of participants argued the focus of an FFP should go beyond merely women and girls by focusing on marginalised groups more generally.

so a feminist foreign policy should focus on….absolutely everybody

no focus, no defined scope, no achievable deliverables

yep, that’s definitely how you get things done

👍👍👍

Igneococcus · 04/11/2022 13:44

Yeah, maybe not @ArabellaScott It's also not the first thing that comes to my mind when I hear feminist policies, but what would I know?

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 04/11/2022 13:23

Aw c'mon, there's nothing frivolous or wishy washy about nuclear war, Igneococcus!

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Igneococcus · 04/11/2022 13:22

That was my favourite sentence:

The backlash against the feminist foreign policy was predicted by experts consulted by the Scottish government, who warned some would regard it as frivolous or “wishy washy”.

Maybe that is because it is frivolous and wishy washy?

RealFeminist · 04/11/2022 13:19

zanahoria · 04/11/2022 12:56

"The government also cited the baby box, a package of essentials delivered to every newborn, pioneered in Finland, as an example of a feminist foreign policy in action"

That is a foreign nation's domestic policy.

Different to foreign policy.

BUT IT HAPPENED IN FOREIGN PARTS

zanahoria · 04/11/2022 13:00

The SNP wants an Independent Scotland to remain in NATO protected by other nations nuclear weapons. It just does not want then in Scotland.

zanahoria · 04/11/2022 12:56

"The government also cited the baby box, a package of essentials delivered to every newborn, pioneered in Finland, as an example of a feminist foreign policy in action"

That is a foreign nation's domestic policy.

Different to foreign policy.

RealFeminist · 04/11/2022 12:50

STOP WHANGING ON ABOOT WOMEN AND FOCUS ON THE REAL ISSUES FACING SCODDLAND TODAY

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 04/11/2022 12:47

<whimpers>

'Participants noted that feminism can be a challenging word that encounters resistance either due to feminism's challenge to existing structures or because it is seen as 'too right-on'. Participants wondered if more could be achieved without explicitly using the feminist label'

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Original poster
ArabellaScott · 04/11/2022 12:46

Make it stop:

'it is important to go beyond seeing intersectionality merely at the individual level (i.e. how an individual is situated at the axes of oppression) and look at how structures driving inequality also intersect (e.g. how militarism and capitalism drive violence and ecological breakdown)'

Feminists! Nuclear war? Climate change? It's YOUR problem to fix! Shush about all the petty concerns of women and girls and get on with the REAL issues, here.

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Original poster
ArabellaScott · 04/11/2022 12:44

Oh, farking H:

'The majority of participants argued the focus of an FFP should go beyond merely women and girls by focusing on marginalised groups more generally. In relation to this, three participants drew attention to feminist analysis's focus on power dynamics and the transformation of structures that drive inequality. As one put it, feminist analysis is different than gender analysis in that it looks at power and asks who is oppressed – while this is often women and girls, it is not only them. Another participant cautioned that focusing on women and girls also often leads to limiting the focus on issues 'traditionally' viewed as gendered'

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/11/2022 12:43

Methinks the Scottish government are desperate to self identify as feminist - much as so many self identify as women 😃

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 04/11/2022 12:43

Yerp, Fenlandia. It smacks of desperately casting about for something, anything, they can call 'feminist'. Perhaps to try and divert attention from some of the loud wummen currently making noise about all the anti-women policies introduced by the Scotgov.

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