Cancel culture? Young people aren’t intolerant, we’re progressive

Wow, those people in the article really are obnoxious! It's almost... ALMOST... as if they were cherry-picked by journalists to further the ideals of a media corporation by appealing to the emotions of its consumers? Almost, huh! What a funny old world.

Honestly, hand on heart I reckon I was this arrogant about the beliefs I held dear at the time.

I am grateful though that life knocked it out of me. I'm a better person for it.

But what worries me about this IS the cancellation of it all. The fascistic (if that is a word) concept that if someone does not agree then they have no worth, their lives have no worth, their opinions, views and very existence has no worth.

The cancel culture mob don't even see it for what it is.

I know that a feature of youth is a measure of just not knowing stuff. But I really hope to god I was never this arrogant about my cluelessness.

Sorry, my post was in answer to @littleburn

Honestly, who the fuck do they think fought against Section 28, fought for women's refuges, marched against apartheid, camped at Greenham?? The arrogance and ignorance is off the scale.

And hear, hear! to this.

Did anyone look at the Greenham exhibition at FiLIA?

Yes, indeed. I can remember seeing the news headlines when equal pay was awarded. I remember when rape in marriage was not a crime. I remember when male homosexuality was a severe impediment to any man wanting a public career.

And so on ….

All 15 year olds like to lecture their parents, but their elder sisters generally don’t get paid Times column rates of pay (not too shabby, I expect) to tell us about it.

'I’m not interested in tolerating the views of others. Nor do I think I should be. Rather, I believe it’s the older generation that needs to become more tolerant of us.'

Well, this is quite a familiar sound. I hear it regularly from my teen.

Why is it that 'progressive' is seen as unmitigatedly positive? What on earth are we progressing towards?

'contemporary discourse, covering everything from LGBT+ rights and sustainability to violence against women and feminism — issues that older generations might not be as well versed in.'

Oh my fucking days.

Tolerance is not acceptance.

Had she said they don't accept (i.e. agree with) those views, that would be far less worrying. No one has to accept views they disagree with.

But tolerance merely requires one to allow that other people have the right to disagree with you, the right not to accept your particular view on any given issue.

To proudly defend intolerance is to proubly embrace illiberalism and censorship. Worst of all, whether they understand this or not, to proudly defend intolerance is to reject some of our most important and cherished and basic human rights - those of freedom of conscience, freedom of belief, of speech, association and assembly.

That's a horrifying world they will end up living in if they get their way.

P.S. and I know this shouldn't annoy me so much, but unless her dad is over 70, he is not part of the baby boomer generation.

Young, advantaged woman with no little life experience showing exactly how illiberal she is, and not having an ounce of awareness.

This is not the first time a 15 year old thinking they know more than their parents, it's a rite of passage after all.

The difference is that they may never come out of this way of thinking if they only interact with those who reflect back the same viewpoints, whether in their friendship groups or the media they consume, which is specifically tailored to their views.

A bit more on the C4 research (though no actual link to it, annoyingly): amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/01/its-out-of-order-gen-z-speak-up-on-cancel-culture-and-young-illiberal-progressives

I think these girls are laying up terrible trouble for themselves. At the moment, it is only ‘other people’, the poor women , the sexually exploited women, the women traded as chattels for family security whoa are really impacted by the ‘ rights’ and ‘liberalism’ which they so thoughtlessly advocate.
But of course, male privilege will burst out of its box, and impact on them, too. I think we had a glimpse of it in the famous Primark changing room incident, that oOr girl still trying to be true to her liberal inclusive principles whilst shaking with shock and fear.
No one is exempt, girls.

So being progressive is restricting freedom of speech
Really you could not make this stuff up
The self absorption of wokies is beyond belief

So called woke liberals are very liberal and open minded until someone does not agree with them
Thuy are incredibly right wing and so not get that their attitude is exactly the same as was seen in Nazi Germany and is seen now in N Korea and China and many middle east places

Have they considered that others might take the same track and may become inconsiderate of their indoctrination views.

Older people might not be 'versed' in feminism? She can fuck right off.

So bored of younger people displaying their ignorance as truth.

When I was 18, I thought my father was pretty dumb. After a while when I got to be 21, I was amazed to find out how much he'd learned in three years.

Spoiled self-important brat are four words coming randomly to mind.

Honestly, who the fuck do they think fought against Section 28, fought for women's refuges, marched against apartheid, camped at Greenham?? The arrogance and ignorance is off the scale.

Basically history, culture and society beyond 10 years ago (and I'm being generous with the time frame there) doesn't exist beyond being some 1950s, racist, sexist, homophobic colonial Britain trope.

Well, yes. But if you are standing there yelling at women for speaking words you don’t want to hear, with dozens and dozens of your mates who assure you that they are tolerant. That are the righteous ones after all.

And adults who are also very intolerant of alternative opinions about what sex and gender are and the impacts to others but affirm your viewpoint, who is going to be able to tell you differently?

I thought it was Titania McGrath at first but now I'm worried that Titania is too liberal and easy going.

“I’m not interested in tolerating the views of others”, she says. Sounds a little like intolerance to me…

Of course not all young people are like this, not my Archie/Isabelle etc. But it's a definite, recognisable sub-set!

Sweet Jesus! I know each generation believes they know it all, but this one is particularly sanctimonious. 🤦🏻‍♀️

I don't think social media helps at all either. There is zero interest or curiosity about the past. Unless Andrea Dworkin was dancing in front of them right now on Tik Tok she might as well have never existed. Then mix in the one acceptable -ism (ageism), double down on the particularly rampant, misogynist element of 'what would you know old crone?' and this is what you get. A generation of cool girl handmaidens doing the misogynists work for them, whilst thinking they are oh so feminist and progressive.

i think the problem is the idea that everyone is supposed to take these opinions seriously. It’s all presented as ‘we know better than you, previous generations’ and somehow society has stopped viewing that as the arrogance of youth. Instead we are supposed to somehow agree that we need to be enlightened.

i suspect it’s also aligned to the ‘we don’t need’ experts thing. Knowledge, experience, perspective - all of it is viewed as less important than the purity of your moral cause.

And it’s so patronising to those deemed ‘vulnerable’.

Young people have always had that mix of over-confidence in their own opinions and blindness to subtlety - both about the situation itself and about the consequences of actions.

We all want to protect the vulnerable. But we oldies can see that a 40 year old accountant who gets off on wearing women's clothes is far less vulnerable than a 13 year old girl with ASD who has experienced CSA. And we can see that a policy of instant affirmation will benefit the Accountant (who gets people propping up his fantasy) whilst causing huge damage to the girl (who seeks hormone blockers then cross sex hormones as a reaction to her social difficulties from ASD and her desire to get away from the constant male gaze - then ends up with no sexual function, a hysterectomy at 25 and osteoporosis at 40). We recognise that once again the vulnerable girl is collateral damage to benefit the powerful male, and we can conclude that this is not a progressive social change. In fact, the opposite.

I think we develop more subtle understanding by repeatedly seeing things turn out in unexpected ways. By misunderstanding things - being wrong ourselves - and realising months or years later. Lots of times! But it takes decades of life to experience that, and (if we are thoughtful) develop more humility and a more subtle understanding.

The problem is how much power this generation have at such a young age. Mao's little red guards are a good comparison. With technology, this generation likewise have the power to destroy people's lives.

The cultural revolution ended when Mao died. But technology isn't going back in the box - and we wouldn't want it to, because it brings huge benefits. We do need to find a way to control it. Personally, I think it will be with a whole raft of new laws. But that will take hard work over many years to figure out.