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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

It's made it to The Guardian at last!.... oh hang on

34 replies

Birdsweepsin · 02/11/2022 07:38

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/02/gender-identity-specialists-accuse-psychology-body-of-contributing-to-fear

The statement suggests that “GIDS took an approach that was predominantly affirmative, rather than exploratory”. But the letter writers argue: “Being ‘affirmative’ is often misrepresented as meaning that a trans identity is encouraged, or treated as a preferred outcome, when an alternative understanding is that this practice is a stance whereby no particular path or identity is privileged over any other.”

We have changed the meaning of the word 'affirmative', in other words.🙄

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MrsJamin · 09/11/2022 07:58

More info about Hadley leaving the guardian...

It's made it to The Guardian at last!.... oh hang on
IcakethereforeIam · 06/11/2022 10:02

Should have included a link to TranswidowsGrin

Birdsweepsin · 06/11/2022 09:03

I know it's the Observer.

But this all feels like very sensible advice...

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/nov/06/ask-philippa-perry-my-husband-wants-to-be-a-woman-but-will-he-be-happier

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IcakethereforeIam · 02/11/2022 20:53

Or they're lying to cover their asses or to try to get the so-called conversion therapy ban through and including trans.

JellySaurus · 02/11/2022 20:29

*“Being ‘affirmative’ is often misrepresented as meaning that a trans identity is encouraged, or treated as a preferred outcome, when an alternative understanding is that this practice is a stance whereby no particular path or identity is privileged over any other.”

We have changed the meaning of the word 'affirmative', in other words.*

What do you expect?

Changing the meaning of words willy-nilly to suit your own purposes and subvert ethics and safeguarding = by-the-book trans ideology.

Merlott · 02/11/2022 19:42

There's another angle to that particular article. The ACP is a relatively small group for clinical psychologists who for whatever reason (diverse and many) don't want to be part of the BPS. The origin of the ACP was a direct response to dissatisfaction with BPS.

Point 1. The BPS are/were captured, ACP don't appear to be.

Point 2. There is no love lost between BPS and ACP.

So I would not be surprised if part of the angle of this particular article is actually being prompted or beefed up by supporters of the BPS behind the scenes. Likely the same BPS influencers who captured the BPS in the first place.

TheBiologyStupid · 02/11/2022 19:31

+1

Abhannmor · 02/11/2022 19:30

Brilliant summary there @justgotosleepffs

justgotosleepffs · 02/11/2022 18:55

Nice one, Guardian.
Because the real story is not "Children's gender clinic so shit that it gets permanently closed down" or "Impartial Review of Children's Gender Services leads to wholesale rejection of what's been standard practice for the last 8+ years".
No, the real story is "People who've been running shit, now-debunked, services get upset when experts close them down"

Abhannmor · 02/11/2022 18:25

The letters , particularly Kirsty Entwistle, are very disturbing indeed. The story needs to be in the mainstream for sure.

Birdsweepsin · 02/11/2022 18:14

I'm still seething that the Guardian have seen fit to suppress this massive story for years.

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Abhannmor · 02/11/2022 13:10

ControversialOpening · 02/11/2022 12:53

This is the only confusing part. Why Hadley? After all the rest of the Graun hacks put the boot into Corbyn at every opportunity.

Criticising Corbyn is a good thing in guardian world. Pointing out anti-Semitism is a bad thing.

I read the diaries of former Tory trade minister Alan Clark. Very witty and gossipy - but the Antisemitsm in the Tory Party was off the scale. Funny we don't hear about it ever.

ControversialOpening · 02/11/2022 12:53

This is the only confusing part. Why Hadley? After all the rest of the Graun hacks put the boot into Corbyn at every opportunity.

Criticising Corbyn is a good thing in guardian world. Pointing out anti-Semitism is a bad thing.

guinnessguzzler · 02/11/2022 12:27

Be fair, The Graun does still have some good stuff ... there was an interesting piece about the importance of balance today 😂

Abhannmor · 02/11/2022 12:20

Beowulfa · 02/11/2022 10:41

Hadley was "warned off" writing about Corbyn-era Labour from a Jewish perspective? And the Left think they have the moral high ground?

This is the only confusing part. Why Hadley? After all the rest of the Graun hacks put the boot into Corbyn at every opportunity. Even now more than 2 years since his departure he is routinely blamed for anything and everything.

There's a YouTube of Owen Jones trying to tell Alexei Sayle that Corbyn's Labour was Antisemitic. Talk about cognitive dissonance. And of course OJ is the Chief Censor. Is he playing both sides I wonder.

Is Adrian Chiles the new Peter Mackay aka the ' Worlds Worst Columnist ' of Private Eye's past?

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 02/11/2022 12:18

Thank you @Birdsweepsin I somehow missed those letters though I did look out for responses in my print copy! I am pleased to see they were there after all.

TheBiologyStupid · 02/11/2022 12:17

Here's an archived copy of David Bell's letter to the LRB: archive.ph/UnA0M

Birdsweepsin · 02/11/2022 12:08

Bernadette Wren @Amaryllis?

David Bell took her piece apart, and she took it badly, as I recall.

I think this is the link but you may need a subscription

www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n24/letters

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AmaryllisNightAndDay · 02/11/2022 11:47

I read an article about the Tavistock along these lines (including arguing that affirmation doesn't always mean what you think it means) in the London Review of books a few months ago, written by someone from the Tavistock . I didn't keep my copy and i don't remember who wrote it. No-one challenged it on the letters page.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 02/11/2022 11:35

IcakethereforeIam · 02/11/2022 11:08

Write about her children!?

I just......no words.

This. I want to say more but can’t find the words…

FemaleAndLearning · 02/11/2022 11:30

One of the recommendations
8. Create spaces where gender diversity is embraced.

What does that mean? If we get rid of the idea of transgender then surely everyone can be celebrated for who they are?

AutumnsCrow · 02/11/2022 11:21

I'm very pleased that Hadley's letter was shared with Ian Hislop. I've got a lot of respect for him.

IcakethereforeIam · 02/11/2022 11:08

Write about her children!?

I just......no words.

Beowulfa · 02/11/2022 10:41

Hadley was "warned off" writing about Corbyn-era Labour from a Jewish perspective? And the Left think they have the moral high ground?

ArabellaScott · 02/11/2022 10:29

“Being ‘affirmative’ is often misrepresented as meaning that a trans identity is encouraged, or treated as a preferred outcome, when an alternative understanding is that this practice is a stance whereby no particular path or identity is privileged over any other.”

The ACP-UK also refers to findings of “diagnostic overshadowing” in the Cass review, a term used to describe situations in which a person’s multiple difficulties are not given equal weight because they are viewed through a single lens.

The letter suggests: “An alternative interpretation is that it is possible to provide support for distress related to gender identity where mental health needs and neurodiversity are also present, and remain cognisant of all factors within formulation-based practice”.

Keen on their 'alternative interpretations', aren't they?