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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some light relief in sport

95 replies

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 31/10/2022 21:18

The Boston Marathon has added a new non-binary category for runners. Great, right?

Except this is the comment from one parent of a runner who identifies as non-binary.

Ok....this will likely start a bunch of hateful comments but here goes: As the parent of a non-binary runner, I applaud the effort for inclusion. However, perhaps a more level playing field, specifically in sports, would be non-binary AMAB and non-binary AFAB. Just my 2 cents.

So the parent realises that non-binary females are disadvantaged by being placed in the same category as non-binary males, and wants it separated by... sex.

Read more about it here

Some light relief in sport
OP posts:
CloeFree · 03/11/2022 05:52

Someone should observe at some point that treating male and female non-binaries the same always tends to result in male bodies and male health requirements being addressed as default, while female unique needs being neglected. Someone should observe how this leads to systemic, institutional discrimination, such as female exclusion from sports. (AFP) - Beijing The head coach of China's women's table tennis team has been changed at the global championships in Germany. Perhaps someone might start a political movement to redress the exclusion of women.

CloeFree · 03/11/2022 05:51

Someone should observe at some point that treating male and female non-binaries the same always tends to result in male bodies and male health requirements being addressed as default, while female unique needs being neglected. Someone should observe how this leads to systemic, institutional discrimination, such as female exclusion from sports. (AFP) - Beijing The head coach of China's women's table tennis team has been changed at the global championships in Germany. Perhaps someone might start a political movement to redress the exclusion of women.

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/11/2022 15:42

the woman who won the marathon in the women's category was 25th overall

That's bloody impressive.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/11/2022 15:32

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 02/11/2022 08:17

So let me get this straight. The person in the Chicago Times article didn’t want to run in the non binary category , having previously campaigned for it, because there wasn’t a subdivision for ‘elite’ runners. So, not enough ‘provision’.

I have a feeling that what Calmia (nearest autocorrect will allow) really wants is to run around alone through a cheering crowd, breasting the finishing tape to wild applause. Aka ‘Mummy, Mummy look at me on the swings, no, Mummy, look,watch me’

This person is a teacher.

In the event, Calamia came second in the non-binary category, and in the 1862th position overall.

The person who won the non-binary category came 696th overall.

By the way, the woman who won the marathon in the women's category was 25th overall. First 24 people to complete the marathon were men.

OP posts:
KnickerlessParsons · 02/11/2022 09:05

So now there are two categories for women to lose to men in: the original women's category and now the non-binary category too.
That's progress for you! 🤷🏼‍♀️

ivykaty44 · 02/11/2022 08:40

they didn't think that statement through... but it can now be used time and again to show that actually its not fair

WomenShouldWinWomensSports · 02/11/2022 08:37

"it feels performative" -- Says someone enacting a performance of a 'gender identity'.
You couldn't make it up.

WomaninBoots · 02/11/2022 08:30

Also. Look at the jump on qualification times by age category between 40-49 and 50-59. It changes 15 minutes for men and half an hour for women. That there is the effect of menopause. Something no NB male will have to deal with. I presume they've carved out space in the NB categories by taking places equally from the male and female category. (Big marathons are always over-subscribed, even if you need to qualify, so they'll have quotas got each category I imagine). I think they assign some places based on how much faster than qualifying you are. At Boston anyway. Which means a NB category will skew towards males. If they do it blind, with no regards for sex. Which just means women, particularly older women, bumped out of the event to make space for males.

WomaninBoots · 02/11/2022 08:21

This is funny as hell.

But previous poster is right... if you end up with prizes in the NB category then it's basically two prizes for male runners. And if they continue the batshittery and start to NB qualification times based on average NB results then it's more opportunity for male runners too. It already is because males have a choice of qualification times.

Getting in to run Boston marathon is an achievement in itself. They've just made it significantly easier for some men to do that.

You can't escape the sex binary in sport. You just can't get away from it. Your body either carries the evolutionary trade-offs imposed by child bearing or it does not.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 02/11/2022 08:17

So let me get this straight. The person in the Chicago Times article didn’t want to run in the non binary category , having previously campaigned for it, because there wasn’t a subdivision for ‘elite’ runners. So, not enough ‘provision’.

I have a feeling that what Calmia (nearest autocorrect will allow) really wants is to run around alone through a cheering crowd, breasting the finishing tape to wild applause. Aka ‘Mummy, Mummy look at me on the swings, no, Mummy, look,watch me’

This person is a teacher.

FrancescaContini · 02/11/2022 07:56

That’s the best definition of being “NB” that I have ever come across: “a bit flaky and a pain in the arse”.

Sh4rkAttack · 01/11/2022 20:07

ErrolTheDragon · 01/11/2022 17:07

Yeah...
So what does being 'nonbinary' actually entail (other than being a normal three dimensional human)? Most of the high profile 'nonbinary' males I've seen seem to be indistinguishable from beardy blokes other than the pronoun 'they'.

In the case of my non binary colleague, it's a handy shorthand for "I'm a bit flaky and a pain in the arse".
Still kicking myself that I didn't have the presence of mind to say, "dunno, didn't ask" when he asked whether the person who had passed me the laptop that he'd left in a meeting room (again) was male our female.

ErrolTheDragon · 01/11/2022 17:07

Amarette · 01/11/2022 15:34

This is so funny. They want a non-binary category made binary according to sex? It's almost as if you can't identify out of your sex class...

Yeah...
So what does being 'nonbinary' actually entail (other than being a normal three dimensional human)? Most of the high profile 'nonbinary' males I've seen seem to be indistinguishable from beardy blokes other than the pronoun 'they'.

FemaleAndLearning · 01/11/2022 15:53

ReunitedThorns · 31/10/2022 23:31

TBF I do ask if non-binary individuals are either non-binary female or non-binary male.

I love having to define non binaries by their sex. For example to question women's groups who include non binaries. I ask them if this will include non binary males if it is a woman only group or event.
Such stupid nonsense usually like the answers.

Amarette · 01/11/2022 15:34

This is so funny. They want a non-binary category made binary according to sex? It's almost as if you can't identify out of your sex class...

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 01/11/2022 15:03

RoyalCorgi · 01/11/2022 14:46

It's hilarious. Where does the quote come from, OP? Would be keen to see the responses.

I didn't take the screenshot, but I think it's from comments on the Facebook page of Runner's World magazine.

This link should take you to the discussion

OP posts:
RoyalCorgi · 01/11/2022 14:46

It's hilarious. Where does the quote come from, OP? Would be keen to see the responses.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 01/11/2022 14:17

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/11/2022 13:47

But Calamia grew concerned when they realized there was no “elite” nonbinary division, as in the male and female races, or any finish line ribbon or monetary prize.

So there would be two monetary prizes for men and just one for women (and in most sports the male prize is bigger anyway). Cool cool.

Also the issue that men competing in the standard category would object.

The person who won the non-binary category placed 696th overall. If they had been awarded prize money, how would that have gone down with the people who ran faster than them and placed 4th and below, but higher than 695th.

OP posts:
TerfranosaurusVagina · 01/11/2022 14:15

Cant help wishing they'd signed off as
"Just my two cunts"

FrancescaContini · 01/11/2022 14:04

Whatsnewpussyhat · 01/11/2022 11:58

The 'non binary' category is excellent for showing just how batshit it all is.

How narcissistic must you be to demand your own batshit category because you're much more special than all the other men and women.

They need to get over themselves and compete in their sex class like every other man and woman.

Yep. Agree with all of this.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/11/2022 13:47

But Calamia grew concerned when they realized there was no “elite” nonbinary division, as in the male and female races, or any finish line ribbon or monetary prize.

So there would be two monetary prizes for men and just one for women (and in most sports the male prize is bigger anyway). Cool cool.

ReunitedThorns · 01/11/2022 13:14

NoPrivateSpy · 01/11/2022 07:14

Why are you so snarky about a non binary category? Isn't this what you wanted?

The non-binary category is in old money a mixed-sex category. Those who don't believe that there biological and physical differences between the sexes are free to participate in those categories and see the reality. This is what happens when ideology meets reality.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 01/11/2022 12:53

If it was an average of both classes, that would mean female athletes who identified as non-binary would have to have a faster running record to apply for a non-binary place than any other female participant. The organisers would actually be transphobic, because the rules would disadvantage females with a non-binary identity against other female participants!

So that can't work. That's why the organisers have simply exported the female standards across.

OP posts:
PuttingDownRoots · 01/11/2022 12:39

I'm one of those who is happy with their being a third category, especially in mass participation events. But by entering the third category, you accept that some have a significant biological advantage i.e. sex. Or are taking hormones.

If you want your sex to be recognised, you need to enter the correct sex category/not take testosterone.

Qualifying times could maybe be an average of the two sex classes.

dunBle · 01/11/2022 12:32

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 01/11/2022 00:22

At some point, someone should notice that treating male non-binaries and female non-binaries the same always seems to result in male bodies and male health needs being treated as default, and female specific needs being ignored. Someone should notice that this creates systematic, institutional discrimination, like females being driven out of sport. Perhaps someone could create a political movement to address female people being excluded. What would they call it?

Fenbyism?