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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Telegraph: ‘Sturgeon’s Tavistock’ clinic offers trans treatments not backed by ‘robust evidence’

117 replies

ResisterRex · 27/10/2022 07:27

A very long article about the Sandyford clinic in today's Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/26/sturgeons-tavistock-clinic-offers-trans-children-surgery-not/

"A gender identity clinic’ branded “Sturgeon’s Tavistock” has been offering patients irreversible sex-change treatments despite senior clinicians admitting that its methods are not backed by “robust evidence”, a leaked recording showed.
The Sandyford Clinic in Glasgow, home to Scotland’s only gender identity clinicc_ for children, also authorised hormone treatment and referrals for surgical procedures for its patients after apparently rudimentary mental health assessments, according to unguarded comments by a senior clinician."

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 29/10/2022 10:41

When the NHS investigated the WPATH links they found CSA material in the Eunuch Archive so extreme they reported it to Police Scotland.

FrancescaContini · 29/10/2022 10:41

@BernardBlacksMolluscs This is absolutely horrendous.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 29/10/2022 10:40

TL:DR

turns out the trans movement attracts some people who should urgently have their hard drives examined.

nothing should be accepted uncritically.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 29/10/2022 10:37

regarding the (other) c word

one worrying thing to bear in mind about the Eunuch Archives: Thomas W Johnson is a retired Professor at California State University in Chico and a formative member of the site.

WPATH have collaborated with him. He has advocated for 'gender identity' to include men who have castration fantasies

The Eunuch Archives contains fictional stories about castrating children (among other things)

To quote from one of Johnson's papers

“Many stories feature attraction to, and ablation of, the genitals of pubescent or adolescent males.”

what do people think 'gender affirming surgery' for boys is?

AlisonDonut · 29/10/2022 10:12

The term 'castration' is not allowed on the boards unless we tell you off for using the word 'castation'. Thus rendering your use of the word 'castration' subject to the Streisand effect and making lurkers who didn't know about it, more interested in why a user said the word 'castration'.

Well played MNHQ!

mcduffy · 29/10/2022 07:25

The telegraph are really going for this aren't they? I have a subscription and I'm keeping it as long as they're covering these issues.

FrancescaContini · 29/10/2022 07:08

That’s a very clear, damning comment from Dr Bell - “reneging on its duty of care”.

ResisterRex · 28/10/2022 22:48

Another Telegraph article with Dr David Bell:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/28/tavistock-whistleblower-says-snp-listened-trans-activists-groups/

"He told the Telegraph: "It's not clear to me the Scottish government has listened to anyone apart from trans activist groups.
"They don't seem to have listened to the Cass Review [an independent NHS England commissioned report into gender services] or to the many parents and detransitioners who have raised very serious concerns about the damage done to children and young people by the ideologically driven affirmative agenda."
"It seems to me there are elements in the Scottish government who are becoming unable to see the difference between reasoned debate, allowing proper reasonable debate, and recasting that as being transphobic.

"And that is going to have a very serious impact on these young people.
"I think the Bill is really following an activist agenda rather than a thoughtful agenda and is reneging on its duty of care to young people.""

OP posts:
MangyInseam · 28/10/2022 11:42

IcakethereforeIam · 27/10/2022 09:22

How do the clinicians working there square this with their medical training, their medical vow and their conciences? I can only assume they don't have one. It puts me in mind of the tropes 'only following orders' and, iirc, 'in order for evil to flourish, it is necessary for good men to do nothing'.

They have a choice, the NHS seems to be short of people everywhere, so I imagine they could easily find work in another area. Have all the good people moved away? So all that is left are the psychopaths, the incompetents and the true believers?

I know someone who has worked as a psychiatrist in gender with kids and teens. She and I used to be in the same book group for years.

She's actually a highly moralistic person, and from what I can see, is overall a competent* and careful practitioner.

*Now, when I say competent, what I mean is she studied, did well, works carefully, is empathetic, and so on. She is also someone who is very concerned with being good, accepting, open, and tolerant. And my sense after spending a lot of time discussing literature with her is that she also has a lot of black and white thinking and seems to me to have a very difficult time understanding other people's thinking and motivations, and becomes really distressed when good people think the "wrong" things.

She really believes that her job is to help people be themselves in a healthy way, which is true of course, but she seems sure that with gender this means just accepting their self-assessment. I think it's because she is a good person and that's what the good people have said.

It was a bit eye opening to me to see how someone who seems so lacking in psychological insight went into that kind of work, and became very well respected in it, without, to my mind, having the basic talents (insight, groundedness) that work requires.

nauticant · 28/10/2022 11:26

I wonder whether the sensitivity by MN over the c word relates to what happened to Posie Parker years back:

Susie’s main complaint is that I refer to c[deleted] in my tweets about her child, now known as Jackie. It is widely known that Susie Green took her son to Thailand at 16 to get Sex Reassignment Surgery, which obviously involves c[deleted].

www.faircop.org.uk/case-studies/kellie-jay-keen-minshull/

I feel like an idiot having to obscure a word describing accurately what occurred in a surgical procedure.

JanieAllen · 27/10/2022 19:57

archive copy of the second Telegraph article archive.ph/ZjING

ResisterRex · 27/10/2022 19:53

There's an accessible link to the new article here:

twitter.com/wommando/status/1585705244838592512?s=46&t=FBZwNUHMND2Mjir3FxFwqw

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 19:32

The dictionary definition of 'eunuch' is 'a man who has been CENSORED'

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 19:32

Yeah, I've been deleted for that before. Not sure how else one describes the removal of genitals?

ResisterRex · 27/10/2022 19:29

No idea what is wrong with it. It's in the Telegraph, which is a pretty dry kind of newspaper...

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FrancescaContini · 27/10/2022 19:27

I saw “cast….” on a recent thread. It wasn’t deleted! Why do MN delete it? What would be a more acceptable word??

ResisterRex · 27/10/2022 19:27

Here's the excerpt I added but with the offending word removed:

"In a leaked recording, obtained by The Daily Telegraph, a consultant clinical psychologist at the Sandyford Clinic states explicitly that gender clinics are following advice issued by the World Professional Association for Transgender Healthh_ (WPATH), despite the NHS and Scottish Government denying this is the case.
WPATH presents itself as a global body of medical professionals but its critics believe it is little more than a lobbying group, set up to legitimise an extreme form of gender ideology. It believes people who identify as eunuchs should be able to receive [WORD REMOVED] on the NHS.
In its new guidelines, which were released in September, it calls for “eunuch” to be recognised as an official gender identityy_ and for “surgical intervention” to be considered for those who “wish to eliminate masculine physical features”.
Its guidelines provide a link to a eunuch fetish website that contains graphic depictions of child abuse so extreme that when they were examined by NHS cyber security staff, they recommended it was reported to Police Scotland."

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FrancescaContini · 27/10/2022 19:26

nauticant · 27/10/2022 08:05

Radio 4's engagement with the story was Justin Webb on the Today programme choosing the Telegraph article as one of the stories to mention in the round up of the newspapers. That triggered whining from trans activists on twitter. Apparently reporting that trans people are receiving sub-standard medical care is "anti-trans".

Justin is definitely on board with this issue. Good for him.

ResisterRex · 27/10/2022 19:23

Here's the link to the Telegraph's second story which contains a banned word I didn't know about!

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/27/gender-identity-clinics-across-scotland-secretly-use-extreme/

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 27/10/2022 19:08

This reply has been deleted

The term "castration" is not allowed on the boards.

Abitofalark · 27/10/2022 14:02

She seems to regard herself as the leader of some great progressive project (and of a Scottish empire), the purpose is to get one up on the English / the UK government. She spoke recently of her loathing of the 'Tories' in terms that were quite shocking. I don't know if that's indicative of a healthy frame of mind for a leader of a country.

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 12:38

I suspect she sees it as low risk. The children who risk being harmed are collateral. Women's rights are some abstract T shirt slogan to her, they don't translate into the boring and mundane things like voting on issues to help women, or taking any actual action. Just a nice wee slogan to chant. Cost free. Sounds good on telly.

WhiteFire · 27/10/2022 11:07

Why has NS made this her 'mission'? She's truly got her fingers in her ears when it comes to this. There isn't even a push to get more evidence before the deal is done, just absolute tunnel vision.

Is it she just doesn't want to be told by the English or is there someone with pockets behind this or does she, for whatever reason, truly believe in it all?

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 10:01

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/consider-the-evidence-on-gender-dysphoria-dr-anthony-latham-dr-anne-williams-dr-calum-mackellar-and-dr-angus-mckellar-3891714

'In summary, the majority position in the report from the Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee is unworthy of the high expectations of the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish people since it is unreasonable, unprofessional, and does not sufficiently address the biomedical evidence. Moreover, if the Scottish Parliament does accept the majority view of the Committee in removing the requirement of a medical opinion before gender transitioning takes place, this will certainly lead to some young persons being harmed.'

(signed by doctors including several from the Scottish Council on Human Bioethics)

IcakethereforeIam · 27/10/2022 09:59

'It is a massive concern for people' but whattayagonnado, eh!?