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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

SNP MSPs will be whipped to vote in favour of gender recognition reforms

329 replies

Criticycle · 26/10/2022 20:17

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-msps-will-be-whipped-to-vote-in-favour-of-gender-recognition-reforms-3894529

Nicola Sturgeon is now going to force members to vote in favour of gender recognition reform.

I feel like she does not understand that this is such a wedge issue that this might cripple the SNP for decades to come.

OP posts:
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ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 16:25

Yes. Entirely sentimental, fact free speech. Latest speaker noting some of the massive gaps in detail and practical application.

Smilelesstalkmore · 27/10/2022 16:22

Not a single actual meaningful argument there from Maggie Chapman, just misty eyed guff about people 'being who they truly are'.

I also flicked back to earlier on, and literally happened to stop on someone saying 'most marginalised in society'! I wonder how many times that has already come up this afternoon.

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 16:20

She is an extremist. But the SNP are supporting this.

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 16:20

'we need new laws, new processes' ... 'I am determined that appropriate gender recognition for under 16s and for non-binary people will be part of our shared future'

Criticycle · 27/10/2022 16:19

“This bill does not do all we want it to” when Maggie Chapman said that it sent shivers down my spine

this does make me wonder what the end goal of this bill is now?

OP posts:
ghostofadog · 27/10/2022 16:19

She wants under 16s to be able to get a GRC as well!!

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 16:18

She wants to scrap 3month waiting and reflection periods.

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 16:17

Someone should be playing a wee violin as she speaks.

ghostofadog · 27/10/2022 16:15

not sure I can listen to Maggie Chapman. My MSP 🙄

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 16:15

Here's Maggie Chapman to enshrine the rights of males over those of females, in Scots law. That's your legacy, Maggie. Own it.

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 16:14

John Mason not supporting. Good on him.

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 16:14

John Mason.

ghostofadog · 27/10/2022 16:12

been frustrated listening to this and all the 'most marginalised', 'terribly traumatic process' identical speeches but pleased to hear the current speaker say 'there are two sexes'!

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 15:53

The legislation is laughably bad and a half way competent lawyer could and surely will, drive a coach and horses through it.

We can hope. Unfortunately it's ordinary women who will be shelling out to pay for those lawyers. Again. Paying to force the govt to uphold the law, ffs.

Whereareyourshoes · 27/10/2022 15:46

BlackForestCake · 27/10/2022 14:38

Community Safety Minister Ash Regan has just resigned.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-minister-ash-regan-resigns-28340482

The dam is breaking.

Thank you Ash Regan. No doubt Nicola Sturgeon would have considered any concerns Ash had to be ‘not valid’.

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 27/10/2022 15:42

beachcitygirl · 27/10/2022 15:10

Of course they should be whipped.
EACH a& EVERY single one of them stood to be elected as an snp MSP on a manifesto that included gra reform in favour of self id.

Ergo they gave their very vocal & obvious support. If any of them now find this issue is a red line for them, then vote against BUT they should do so as in independent MSP

GRA reform in favour of self-is is party policy.

One doesn't (or shouldn't) get electoral support & to stand on a party ticket.
Voters voted for the snp and their manifesto & quite frankly its abhorrent to remain an MSP or MP when you are not reflecting the policy for which you were elected.

Any such person is free to resign, have any-election & see just exactly how much support their "personal" pet policies/prejudices have in the real world.

Under the proposals a man will need to show he has been living in ‘woman gender’ for three months before applying. A criminal charge will follow from a false declaration.

So what, in practical terms, is living in ‘woman gender ’? Will the Scottish Government have approved lists of womanly and manly clothes and hairstyles? Ways of walking? Approved speech/roles? How is this about anything but restrictive, regressive stereotypes? If you can’t define what this is, how will you ever prove a false declaration?

If anyone can self identify an unchangeable biological characteristic like sex, then why not self-identified date of birth?

The legislation is laughably bad and a half way competent lawyer could and surely will, drive a coach and horses through it.

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 15:34

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/letters-snp-politicians-spell-out-concerns-over-gender-change-bill-1419211

Letters: SNP politicians spell out concerns over ‘gender change’ bill (2019)

ArabellaScott · 27/10/2022 15:32

Noting that women who stand up to this ideology may appreciate letters of support.

RealFeminist · 27/10/2022 15:30

DISAGREEIN WI PARTY POLICY IS BASICALLY HATE CRIME

RealFeminist · 27/10/2022 15:29

NAEBDY TELT US THERE WAS ANYHING WRONG

BlackForestCake · 27/10/2022 15:19

Presumably Ash was aware that her concerns would have been dismissed as "transphobic"

Or the vicious online mob of Joshes, Jordans and Camerons would have been mobilised to get her driven out of her job.

beachcitygirl · 27/10/2022 15:14

Oh and ash regan stood TWICE on a manifesto that included gra reform. Where was her conscience then & when she was taking the ministerial salary.
She's a disgrace & I fervently hope she loses the whip.
Disgraceful liar.

beachcitygirl · 27/10/2022 15:10

Of course they should be whipped.
EACH a& EVERY single one of them stood to be elected as an snp MSP on a manifesto that included gra reform in favour of self id.

Ergo they gave their very vocal & obvious support. If any of them now find this issue is a red line for them, then vote against BUT they should do so as in independent MSP

GRA reform in favour of self-is is party policy.

One doesn't (or shouldn't) get electoral support & to stand on a party ticket.
Voters voted for the snp and their manifesto & quite frankly its abhorrent to remain an MSP or MP when you are not reflecting the policy for which you were elected.

Any such person is free to resign, have any-election & see just exactly how much support their "personal" pet policies/prejudices have in the real world.

mcduffy · 27/10/2022 15:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-63416857
Covered on the front news page