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Original poster

Primary school new RSE policy including "trans children"

40 replies

Useruser1 · 25/10/2022 22:56

This has come to review for me as a governor. Included in the year 5 section:

"However, special consideration and sensitivity will be needed for any pupils who identify as being transgender. Throughout teaching this topic, it is acknowledged that there is the possibility that a person can identify as a gender different from that assigned to them at birth."

I can feel myself having a panic attack at the thought of raising this but I know I need to. I DO NOT want children in my school being told girls who want to be boys can be.
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/schools-resources-and-policies/

OP posts:
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BreatheAndFocus · 03/11/2022 18:05

Great Audre Lorde quote 😎 And very well done, OP!

DameMaud · 02/11/2022 23:32

Well done OP!
Love the Audre Lorde quote @ValancyRedfern so true!

ValancyRedfern · 02/11/2022 21:20

Well Done!!!!
“When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard nor welcomed, but when we are silent we are still afraid, so it is better to speak,"
Audre Lorde. A motto to live by!

Leafstamp · 02/11/2022 20:49

Well done. I wish the governors at my children’s school were more like this.

SallyLockheart · 02/11/2022 17:00

well done

MrsOvertonsWindow · 02/11/2022 16:29

Well done Useruser1. That sounds to be a positive outcome. Especially reinforcing what we're in danger of losing - that it's the role of governors to question.

NinetyPercent · 02/11/2022 11:31

That sounds brilliant, well done!

ScrollingLeaves · 01/11/2022 22:55

I think you did wonderfully, well done.

334bu · 01/11/2022 20:52

👏

Original poster
Useruser1 · 01/11/2022 20:44

OK update after the meeting. I was highly nervous!

It was about to be waved through and I said I had some questions about "gender assigned at birth" and where this wording came from. We had a 10 minute discussion where I managed to put forward my position that

  • we should prioritise sex rather than gender
  • GI is not a protected characteristic
  • It isn't preparing children for secondary to be taught the details of this (though a good point was made to prime slightly so they're not blindsided by it later)
  • We don't actually have a requirement to teach "gender"
  • By teaching some “LGBT” content we are already compliant, I don't think Transexual or transgender status needs to be discussed at all. We can discuss different family types (straight, gay, single, carers etc etc) and enforce the need to be polite and respectful of differences.
  • In practice the EA2010 does not require anyone to be treated as anything other than their sex.
  • I believe this policy could be harmful in teaching children that if they do not identify with the stereotypical behaviour/feelings/clothing of their sex then they may be the other

From the school's side

  • Someone unprompted highlighted that it's often autistic girls who are trans identified and we agreed this was a reason for caution
  • Safeguarding lead agreed this isn't done lightly and any change is always done with the parents and medical professionals (I believe this)

I said I'm not happy for the policy to go through as it is. There is a lead in the school for this (who wasn't there today) who I'm going for a meeting with to discuss, and come back next mtg.

The main takeaway was that I said I was nervous about raising this but the group were very supportive and reminded me that the role of governors is to question these things. Everyone was polite and it was all on good terms, which was a huge relief.

Happy to answer any questions or share the resources I'll send. But I'm proud to have researched and raised an issue so important to me. Thanks for the support everyone!

OP posts:
NinetyPercent · 31/10/2022 21:51

@Useruser1 Good luck - do come back and let us know how you get on. Glad it's not just me feeling GB has very little influence...

Original poster
Useruser1 · 31/10/2022 21:49

@NinetyPercent sorry I tagged myself instead of you in that msg above!

OP posts:
Original poster
Useruser1 · 31/10/2022 21:48

@Useruser1 yes same it's not very clear.

We are part of a small trust so the LGB here doesn't have statutory responsibilities like they would if we were a "normal" school.

My experience so far is that we are there to rubber stamp things but nobody really wants our input!

I've not yet managed to have any meaningful change to policies but will persist and let you know how I do

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NinetyPercent · 31/10/2022 12:17

Good luck Op @Useruser1 I've recently become a co-opted governor at a primary school so watching with interest. I have had to give feedback on a couple of policies already, but what I'm not clear on is whether the Head and SLT have to make any changes as a result of Governor feedback? I'm still figuring out what influence, if any, Governors can have on what the school's policies are? I can recommend which orgs or resources might be better than others, for example, but the school is under no obligation to go with mine (or any other Governor's) recommendations. Does that sound right to you?

RoyalCorgi · 30/10/2022 18:43

The most obvious point to make is that "gender" is not "assigned" at birth. A baby's sex is observed and recorded, so that's it. It's probably a good idea if educational materials don't include outright untruths.

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 17:51

*lifestyle magazine

not just lifestyle, that would be weird!

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 17:47

I worked for gay men’s lifestyle in the 90s.

I don’t recall any of the discussion re: rights for gay men and lesbians being anything like the discussions regarding children and adolescents (or who believe themselves to be) experiencing gender Dysphoria.

Perhaps previous poster was in a completely different country to me?

ScrollingLeaves · 30/10/2022 10:44

SamTamit· Yesterday 19:39
You remind me of parents from the early 1990s who were concerned that children would be exposed to gay paedophiles of gay people were given more rights and recognitions

good luck with reaching a mor enlightened mindset. : )

People’s sexual orientation towards the same sex does not involve the mentally and physically dangerous proposition that someone has been born in the wrong body and that it needs to be changed with hormones and surgery; it does not involve the lie that sex is a spectrum and people can be a different sex from the one they were born.

Also, a child who might grow up to be gay should not be given the idea that they aren’t gay, but actually a different sex. This happens. There should be no sense that their non-conformity or same sex orientation needs to be transed aways.

There should be no sense that a trauma, or previous sexual abuse can be escaped by changing gender.

Maybe your own mindset is not as enlightened, or informed, as you seem to be presuming.

SamTamit · 29/10/2022 19:39

You remind me of parents from the early 1990s who were concerned that children would be exposed to gay paedophiles of gay people were given more rights and recognitions.
good luck with reaching a mor enlightened mindset. : )

Original poster
Useruser1 · 26/10/2022 22:18

Lilithslove · 26/10/2022 13:36

Yes concerns are fine but immediately jumping to worst possible interpretation and acting on that won't necessarily lead to the a good outcome for the op. Especially as she doesn't yet have the full information.

I think it's better to ask questions than accuse the school of indoctrinating pupils into gender idology or make assumptions on how they would deal with a young child with gender dysphoria.

You are right, and along with other posters I thank you for the input. When I wrote it last night I was in a bit of a flap.

Im going to ask about what it means and how it would be applied before going off the deep end, but not approve it with this wording about "assigned at birth" etc

OP posts:
Lilithslove · 26/10/2022 13:36

Yes concerns are fine but immediately jumping to worst possible interpretation and acting on that won't necessarily lead to the a good outcome for the op. Especially as she doesn't yet have the full information.

I think it's better to ask questions than accuse the school of indoctrinating pupils into gender idology or make assumptions on how they would deal with a young child with gender dysphoria.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/10/2022 13:13

Lilithslove · Today 11:40
I think we are reading the statement differently then because to me it doesn't imply anything about agreeing with the child. It just says there might be children who identify as transgender. That's not the same as saying that girls can be boys or vice versa.

In your position I would want to know details of how this will be applied in practice before going in all guns blazing as you are making a lot of assumptions.

That is good advice to first ask more about how dealing sensitively with a child who says they are trans gender would be carried out in practice, and in regards to the other children in the school too.

Given the wording here (copied below),
‘assigned at birth,’ the OP may be right to feel concerned. Sex is recorded at birth, or often before now days. So what are they saying when they use the words gender assigned at birth (U S jargon that migrated here) ? ….,

What do they mean by ‘gender’? A euphemism for sex? If so why say ‘assigned’?

Or do they mean ‘gender’ a stereotypical expression of male and female as a social role? In which case are they saying that
everyone may have a gender different from the sex of their body so we always say ‘assigned at birth’ because no one can know your gender at birth? You may have the wrong body for your ‘gender’?

“However, special consideration and sensitivity will be needed for any pupils who identify as being transgender. Throughout teaching this topic, it is acknowledged that there is the possibility that a person can identify as a gender different from that assigned to them at birth."

Lilithslove · 26/10/2022 11:40

I think we are reading the statement differently then because to me it doesn't imply anything about agreeing with the child. It just says there might be children who identify as transgender. That's not the same as saying that girls can be boys or vice versa.

In your position I would want to know details of how this will be applied in practice before going in all guns blazing as you are making a lot of assumptions.

Original poster
Useruser1 · 26/10/2022 11:37

ScrollingLeaves · 26/10/2022 11:30

This post comes across of you objecting to treating children confused about their gender sensitively and with consideration which seems pretty transphobic to me.

The OP said,
“I DO NOT want children in my school being told girls who want to be boys can be.”

Sensitivity to a primary school age child ( age 4 - 10) who says (or more likely whose parents say )they are transgender, need not mean official social transition and ‘affirmation’, lying to and confusing the other children, and teaching them in RSE lessons with non-speak words like ‘assigned at birth’, ‘gender identity’ or there is a ‘spectrum’. That is not sensitive.

thanks this is a good angle. The sensitive approach to a child who says that they identify as something they're not or have body dismorphia issues is to be kind to them, get to the bottom of why they feel like that and ultimately to be comfortable with their body.
Not to affirm them

OP posts:
Original poster
Useruser1 · 26/10/2022 11:31

Lilithslove · 26/10/2022 11:01

What exactly are you objecting to here?
Are you saying that treating children who think they are trans sensitively is a bad thing? So you think they should be treated insensitively? Or should schools ignore the fact that vast swathes of children are now identifying as transgender because you think that will somehow protect your precious child from being influenced?

People like to respond with wide-eyed faux innocence when people say this forum is transphobic and say that people should point it out when they see it so I will.
This post comes across of you objecting to treating children confused about their gender sensitively and with consideration which seems pretty transphobic to me.

Thanks for the good faith question :/

Clearly I'm not suggesting anyone be treated insensitively

  • I am objecting to the concept that a child who says "I am actually a boy" should be agreed with
  • I am objecting to planting the seed in childrens' heads that if they don't conform to sex based stereotypes that they might have been "born in the wrong body"
  • and I am objecting to someone's "gender identity" being anything other than a personality trait.

If we are writing that "some children say X and we should be kind to them" that's great. If we are writing "some children say X and we have to affirm them and praise them and there is to be no debate" that is a problem

OP posts: