Kemi Badenoch appointed new Minister for Women and Equalities

But I find it tends to give some feminists the sense that it is ok for them to speak on behalf of women who have different views than they do, while at the same time dismissing those views as being "wrong" somehow.

Yes.

Being a Conservative does not mean "by definition" fighting for the rights of the rick elite over others.

This is hyperbolic nonsense which some on the left seem to have simply accepted without question, and I suspect it goes a long way to explaining some of the bizarre political tribalism that happens, and the name calling and lack of political analysis.

If the current screwing around with identity politics on the left, and gender ideology specifically, accomplishes nothing else it would be really great if it makes some people step back and learn what kinds of principles do underlie political conservatism, rather than this simplistic caricature.

I have to say, I don't love the "on behalf of" element in this quote.

I don't know that AD was intending it that way at all, I think at least in part she means that feminism is supposed to be keeping the needs of women as a group in mind, not just some types of women.

But I find it tends to give some feminists the sense that it is ok for them to speak on behalf of women who have different views than they do, while at the same time dismissing those views as being "wrong" somehow.

It's the same kind of dismissive smugness that seems to infect the left generally. Fighting for the good of women (or any group) as a class is great, but it very easily tips into claiming to be the voice of that class without representing the actual views of real, rather than abstract, women. And that ends up in many ways disenfranchising those voices.

We've seen the same thing with other lobbies, the LGB being perhaps the most spectacular, but also we see how black conservatives are treated, and it's similar with other groups.

Economically left and right are different things. But the political map also goes authoritian / liberal.

Many tories are the same level of authoritarian as Labour just right wing rather than left wing variants.

Gender criticals vary. Some are more authoritarian than others but most fall into a Liberal area of the political map. This includes some on the left and some on the right.

The forced teaming reduces politics to a left / ring wing narrative which completely ignores the liberal / authoritarian axis.

What we are seeing is that right and left wing liberals may have more in common than people from their own left or right wing.

This is where the corruption of the word Liberal (capital L) into meaning a set prescribed set of values matters and is misleading. (also see 'progressive').

Right wing liberals are as different from nazis as left wing liberals. Left wing authoritarians inhabit the same political space as stalinists. Right wing authoritarians inhabit the same political space as fascists. There are 4 tribes. Not two.

Yep. I am mostly going to ignore anyone making this kind of judgement, going forward.

And obviously the fact that the tories are digusting (and authoritarian and nasty and cruel and economically illiterate and anti-democratic) doesn't mean that they won't get my vote at the next election.
and here we go again. This thread is like Groundhog Day

I don't divide humans into the disgusting who are beneath me and should be shunned, have lesser rights than decent people, spat on, raped, killed, excluded, etc, and humans who are Like Me and should have all the good things.

Not liking or agreeing with someone does not make me decide they're subhuman and I should join with others in my gang and bully and harm them. Because I'm not eight.

Quite.

It means in essence 'I decree this person subhuman scum because they're not Like Me'.

Whether it's because of their skin colour, whether or not they're disabled, or gay or trans or female or vote differently to you really doesn't matter: it's picking one characteristic to justify your dehumanising and your innate superiority to them.

It's the voice of human prejudice, bullying and the root of atrocities since time immemorial. But if you really want to go through life having learned nothing and with Hyacinth Bucket as your role model you do do.

I agree completely. Furthermore even if all he knows about the subject is what I have told him in emails sent to his HoC email address he should be pretty damn well informed!

To be fair "she's disgusting because she's a tory" is a pretty fair assessment.

Comments like this make me despair. How is this any different from what TRAs say about t*rfs? It's an ad hominem pretending to be an argument. Disappointing.

There are still far too many people who are buying the notion that trans rights are the same as homosexual rights. Because that's the way it's been marketed. It's a sales job.

And because trans rights activists try and avoid public questioning, people are slow in seeing the contradiction.

It will only take that one question, though.

i'm surprised the mail or the Telegraph haven't done a massive article about it, to be honest.

Eg a headline saying 'why some people think homosexuality no longer exists'.

Yes.

He replaced Coffey.

I forgot ... it's Barclay in Health now isn't it? Can't keep up with these 43 day tenures.

All surveys indicate that the uk is still largely socially conservative, hence one of the reasons the Conservatives put this ahead of economic policy under May's leadership.

However as part of that we are still liberal compared to others on some subjects. Most notably homosexuality.

This makes the conflict between trans / homosexual rights even more confusing and contradictory.

And anyone who brings up the vote on fracking as a way to discredit Kemi, also needs a long lecture and explanation of British politics and party and constitutional practice. In effect the fracking vote had nothing to do with fracking and was everything to do with Liz Truss as demonstrated by Sunak immediately saying that the party policy was now the opposite of the vote.

Tbf, I kinda understand why people are fed up with politics when you have one party voting on a subject when it's really about something completely different and when you have a leader of the opposition who is a human rights lawyer who doesn't understand the principles of human rights.

I agree. It’s almost impossible for the left to shift to the right on cultural issues because they have have a tendency to position themselves very firmly (and loudly) on the moral high ground. It then becomes very difficult to shift your position towards one that you’ve recently denounced as evil. Weird thing is I bet most Labour voters don’t give a shit about Labour’s version of social progressivism.

He is a human rights lawyer.

This is not an excuse that stands up.

Yup. As I said upthread, I hope and I reckon she's been given the brief of mopping up Mordaunt's mess.

And Kemi knows exactly who spilled what, and why, and where. Including the civil servants, the MPs, the peers like Nick Herbert, the freelancers and the tweeters.

If she gets Women & Equalities (and the GEO) cleaned up, a lot of good things should automatically follow in prisons, hospitals, refugee camps, schools, refuges, crisis centres and other settings.

Kemi especially needs Raab to get a grip in Justice, and Coffey in Health. It's disgusting what Mordaunt and her team promoted.

I can only assume that he trusts stonewall and has never felt the need to engage his brain or that he fears labour have no chance if they lose the support of young labour and TRA voters.

I am just leaving this link to this young woman’s tiktok here.

twitter.com/hatpinwoman/status/1586018643887804418?s=46&t=cAmEHNkH9au3MlnrBlBOQw

I think all those posters from the past who decreed that ‘the younger generation’ are so much more accepting of calling males ‘women’ need to start looking outside their safe bubble.

Like the tweeter, I too am seeing more young women voicing their disagreement on line now. It must surely infuriate those males who desperately want access to female single sex spaces.

Because that trope we kept telling them was a myth is now more quickly being disproved. It is NOT just one age group raising their voices. This is across all age groups now.

I guess this is where women turn around and use that fucked up ‘stay mad!’ phrase back to those who spawned it.

To be fair "she's disgusting because she's a tory" is a pretty fair assessment. By definition all Tories are fighting for the rights of the very rich at the expense of the ordianry middle and working classes.

But, obviously, she is much better than most labour MPs would be in the same job.

And obviously the fact that the tories are digusting (and authoritarian and nasty and cruel and economically illiterate and anti-democratic) doesn't mean that they won't get my vote at the next election.

Where I find it most alarming is that Starmer is a human right specialist. Apparently. It was his area of law!

So for him to to fail to understand the underlying principles of right is an active betrayal of what he is supposed to stand for and it makes you really wonder what the hell he is playing at.

Its somehow worse than many others within the party for this reason alone and it is something that need to be stressed and highlighted.

I don’t think politicians on the left can change direction as adeptly as those on the right.

It’s the political equivalent to painting yourself into a corner. Look at the SNP currently.

Great post RedToothBrush (yet again). It's so disappointing that Starmer doesn't understand that if he's in thrall to a group so determinedly enshrining lies into the fabric of society, along with dismantling the safeguarding of children and women, what other group will rock up that he'll get captured by?

It displays a massive lack of critical thinking and therefore integrity. That's disappointing as I've always thought he was one of the good ones, prepared to lift the stones, see what's underneath and take appropriate action.