Kemi Badenoch appointed new Minister for Women and Equalities

and there's this - Equalities, huh?
www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25693/kemi_badenoch/saffron_walden/policy_set_png?policy_set=social

Sorry @beastlyslumber meant to quote you.

This is what I was responding to @thedancingbear

TBF I think he was saying he accepted that there are genuine principled GC views, he just doesn't think that Kemi is expressing them, he thinks that they are motivated by her right wing populism.

Agree, they're not intelligent or constructive arguments.

But they're not up there with 'monstrous' or 'delusional'.

It's 'the Right thinks the left is misguided, the Left thinks the right is evil' playing out as it usually does.

Excellent post WahineToa

Rory Stewart made a good 3 part radio 4 series about the history of debate and how democracy is based on being able to freely discuss ideas. Free speech.

I really hate that the left are completely unable to do this rationally without name calling. If you label something negative you should be able to explain why.

It allows the tories to continue to remain in power.

I completely agree with this. One policy politics falls apart with someone like this. She also voted against buffer zone at abortion clinics. But she knows what a woman is so we are supposed to be grateful for crumbs?!

That's politics for people who want quick soundbites, not clarity.

Exactly. I prefer to get to know my MP and their views rather than just look at voting records without details. Making statements like ‘ voted against laws for equality’ are completely meaningless without examples.

Agree that none of those terms are helpful. Nor is that kind of sneery, divisive politics.

I don’t believe in hate crime legislation and I never have. A crime is a crime. Motivation is a factor at trial, it doesn’t need to be separated out as a special law. Harassment, violence etc are all already crimes. The idea it is monstrous not to agree with hate crimes is… well that’s silly too.

Yes, I've also come to this conclusion.

@User135644 I’m not sure being called woke is the same as calling someone monstrous or nutters?

One could quite easily make this shit up, tbh. Last nigth while I was looking for evidence of specific policies I found that site less than helpful. Those extremely broad brush summations give a really skewed picture of individual bills, and no detail. That's politics for people who want quick soundbites, not clarity.

This is what I was responding to @thedancingbear

The basic problem for me is that crt is US based historically and contextually.

It doesn't work in U.K. contexts.

But it's ok for the right to denigrate anyone left of them they disagree with as woke, snowflake or bleeding heartbliberals. Or lefty lawyers if they follow the rule of law.

Or tofu eating wokerati if they're the Home Sec.

What an interesting read this thread has been! Somewhat lacking in substance though.

I find it disappointing so many on a feminism board are using ableist phrases to describe Kemi, especially as when asked to explain why they seem to say ‘ I don’t have to explain it!’. No you don’t. You can come here and say anything within the rules, but it just makes you look a bit silly.

Nobody has been able to show a single ‘far right’ or ‘extreme’ view or vote of hers.

Being right wing isn’t the gotcha some think it is. The idea that only left wing parties should be supported by feminists is particularly ludicrous given the left wing are holding very extreme views when it comes to women and identity in general. Yes, I would call some members of the UK Labour Party, extremists. Pretending men can be women and campaigning and proposing to allow any man to ‘identify’ as and be legally a woman on his say-so, is an extreme position. So is saying that it’s not ok to state biological fact that only women have a cervix.

Not supporting buffer zones around abortions clinics is a disappointment to me personally, but I also understand why people might not want this. It’s a slippery slope as we’ve seen with trans ideology. I personally don’t like we have separate clinics, I want them to be part of women’s health in hospitals and for women to walk in with everybody else instead of being pushed off to go to an easily recognisable clinic and sit in a room with all the other naughty ladies for hours waiting to be called. I hated it myself and felt very sorry for the young girls. I’m going to write to Kemi about this. She seems open to discussion in general.

I don’t believe in hate crime legislation and I never have. A crime is a crime. Motivation is a factor at trial, it doesn’t need to be separated out as a special law. Harassment, violence etc are all already crimes. The idea it is monstrous not to agree with hate crimes is… well that’s silly too.

Im Polynesian, critical race theory is dangerous and does not one thing to help us.

Again, nobody here complaining about her has really given solid examples on what makes her scary or ‘far right’ in any way. It’s fine to not like her or her politics, but the words used about her by some are not accurate or supported by anything she has said it done.

I find it really frustrating that this thread has once again turned into a debate on whether being right wing is evil or not. Quite a lot of your neighbours and friends are right wing. Do you think it’s tolerant to despise and demonise all of them too?

It wasn’t meant sarcastically, @Ereshkigalangcleg, I promise you, and I was perplexed by @beastlyslumber s post.

More accusations of mental illness to add to the list.

It's obvious that beastlyslumber thought your comment "any similarity is coincidental" was sarcastic, @thedancingbear. Do get over yourself.

Oh for goodness sake. I’ve not called you’or anyone on this board a populist right wing nutter. Nor have I called anyone insane.

this isn’t a place for actual discussion. I’ll leave you to it.

Maybe we need to move away from ‘right wing’ as the worst thing you can possibly be.

it’s a loose classification of a band of opinions that might include economic liberalism, a market as opposed to a planned economy, individual liberties and rights, and traditional social attitudes. These beliefs might not be for everyone and you don’t have to buy into the whole package. I’m an economic libertarian with a few socially conservative beliefs and a few that are very much not.

Can we get back to disagreeing with & critiquing political positions rather than monstering them?

I like KB. Intelligent, articulate and stands for something. Will no doubt disagree with something she’s done or will do but there’s also a lot to like.

I think the use of language like 'monstrous' to describe and denigrate mainstream well intentioned views is the biggest concern we have.

Well put.

Some dehumanise and then feel entitled to denigrate and repress humans on the ground of their belief that reality exists and women are a sex class that cannot and should not be identified into.

Some on the grounds of belief of their skin colour or their age.

Some apparently that they might vote for or fail to say politically anything but what the dehumaniser deems 'Right'.

There isn't any one form of dehumanising others that is more acceptable than others; the issue is dehumanising. It's one of the ugliest failures of this period in history.

Are you literally living in a hole? Have you missed the entire last year of Conservative rule? Totally deluded comment and utterly out of touch to think this a good.

I'm pleased about this KB is bright, courageous, and determined which is what we need.

It's cowardice that's allowing the labour party to go along with this gender ideology.

I also agree with many of her other views: I think CRT is racism repackaged, I'd like hate crime legislation reconsidered, I think we have to take serious steps to stop illegal immigration, I think a wealth creating economy does more to lift people out of poverty than welfare, I don't think a women's right to choose is the only consideration in abortion, I think we need to focus on energy independence as a priority or the poorest will suffer most.

Am I a monster too?
Or do I want the same aims as the leftists: less poverty, more opportunity, fairness, but just have a different views on how this would be achieved?

I think the use of language like 'monstrous' to describe and denigrate mainstream well intentioned views is the biggest concern we have.
A society where differing viewpoints are described using language which evokes grotesque and inhuman creates an inability to discuss debate understand compromise. It creates a language that allows the belief that 'the other' is so inhuman you no longer even have shared humanity.

When you get to the point when you see the other side as inhuman terrible things can be justified.

Currently I feel the right wing is just normal right wing, but it's the left that have become the extremists.

@Wallaw @beastlyslumber has put it perfectly

I also don't believe that misogyny should be classed as a hate crime. I think we should get rid of the entire concept of hate crimes and hate speech, for that matter. They are used against women and minorities by TRAs and other ideologues. People are having non-crimes recorded against them due to vexatious complaints. It's an assault on free speech.

I think that's a fairly common point of view. Please explain how this makes me a right wing nutter.

Or do you just think women are insane when they don't agree with you?