Kemi Badenoch appointed new Minister for Women and Equalities

I will answer yours after you answer mine...

Do you believe that men who claim a trans woman identity but are not trans should be able to enter women's toilets, or do no such people exist?

“Now answer my question”

who do you think you are, chum 🤣

Nobody is answering your silly question because it frames the debate in a spurious way. It’s a non question. It’s not a gotcha.

Wrong button hit, sorry. Have reported my post to HQ.

In order to answer this question you will need to clearly state what you mean by 'transwoman'. Do you mean someone who has had full SRS, or any male who says he identifies as a woman, or something in between?

If we are talking about law and policy, you need to be crystal clear about which people we are discussing.

Exactly.

The whole "tradition", and I'm calling it that because that's what it is, of men who start a transition to the thing that is described as "living as a woman" using women's facilities comes from the medical professional telling them to do this. The act of dressing and entering a woman's place IS the transition and "gender" doctors would expect men to develop this practice.

These doctors obviously were not the slightest bit interested in what the women thought about their "prescription" and that is reflective of the sexism inherent in the whole process.

Sexist gender doctors decided men should use women's facilities. There is no law.

The fact that this still continues is straight forward prejudice against women.

What is the difference between a 'transwoman' and a man who is pretending to be a 'transwoman'?

Bore off

you add nothing to what is otherwise an interesting discussion

Meet Katie. Katie identifies as a transwoman. Katie sexually assaulted a 10-year-old girl in a women's toilet in a supermarket.

metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/

Now do you agree that your aim is for violent males to have access to women and girls in what should be female only spaces?

Oh fgs will you pack it in.

You're going round and round and round like a demented yoyo without listening to a word anyone's saying and ranting on repeatedly without engaging in conversation. People have answered you repeatedly in your endless banging out of this very silly question but you've ignored their answers to keep asking, you have been asked questions repeatedly which you're also ignoring, wtf do you want other than to derail?

I will never vote Tory so I'm not delighted by anything that's happening now, but given we're stuck with this government pro tem it's good we don't have a TWAW person in the Women and Equalities post. That's about as far as I can go.'

The discussion has moved on but I agree with this.

And of course, white privilege exists.

Coming from a mixed-race background, this is perfectly clear to me just looking at my own extended family. I have white privilege. I also think that the concept is often poorly defined.

Do you believe that men should be able to enter women's toilets?

Do you believe that men who claim a trans woman identity but are not trans should be able to enter women's toilets, or do no such people exist?

I hate to break it to you, but the worls is nuanced, complex and often contradictory.

Though in this case is is not that nuanced or complex. White privilege is a thing white people benefit from, but it comes with downsides, like most good things!

Now do you agree you want to stop trans women entering women's loos?

I want to stop men entering womens and girls spaces. You keep reframing it to force people to see it from your pov. We don’t. They’re male. We have the legal rights to stop them if we wish.

I suspect there's a good reason why DadJoke's only focus is women's toilets.

I can substantiate it to the extent that any idiot can google white privilege and come up with numerous examples which appear convincing. It's not like I can get a text book and get a definitive answer like I could to a question like "is sex binary?" or "can mammals change sex?"

White privilege is not a specialist subject of mine, and I don't go around bring it up very often. This thread has shifted me a bit towards the view that it is rarely worth bringing up when other privileges are so much more important.

Man you’re boring

sport, prisons, opportunities ring fenced for women

all you can bore on about is fucking toilets

You have literally just agreed that it's not illegal. Now do you agree you want to stop trans women entering women's loos?

Do you agree, that although you have admitted most women don't want men, however they identify, in their loos, you still want that to happen?

In which case, it's completely meaningless to call it a privilege! More than meaningless, it's double-speak. In the scenarios you describe, whiteness is a disadvantage, i.e. the very opposite of a privilege.

As you say, this is your belief, which you're entitled to hold. But I'm just pointing out for the benefit of onlookers that this makes zero sense.

I believe that white privilege exists. It is a thing that white people have.

That's fine. You have a belief that you are unable to substantiate. I respect and believe that you're entitled to hold such a belief. I agree that it's probably not wise to bring it up unless you are able and willing to argue for it.

You have literally just agreed that it's not illegal. Now do you agree you want to stop trans women entering women's loos?

Yes, I was positing the theory that white privilege in this context might increase the risk to white people compared to more cautious black people.

100% of people who are killed in horse-riding accidents are people who ride horses. Having access to a horse to ride doesn't seem like much of a privilege!

Yeah

the way I look at it is if a black person and a white person are in identical situations, who will have more opportunities and better outcomes? I would argue the white person would because they won’t suffer discrimination on the basis of their skin colour

however in practical terms, when do you ever find people in identical circumstances? So really, it’s not that much use as a concept