Mango

Trans gender models seem to quite common now, though there seem to be fewer trans men than trans women shown here.

www.popsugar.com/fashion/Transgender-Models-41954393

Mango have been using trans models for several years. Not new.

People have become scared to refer to a "man in a dress" because of the fear of being accused of hate by 'misgendering.’

yes - I got banned from another forum for calling a drag queen a “man in a dress.”

btw is anyone else getting a certain vibe from the repetitive fixation of these threads? As if trying to persuade women that female models are male is, uh, gratifying? Perhaps “validating” is the correct euphemism in this context. Anyway, I would avoid DMs.

Sex segregated women's spaces must exclude a man regardless of what he is wearing. End of.

Whether or not a man wanting to try on a dress or skirt etc. goes into the men's changing room is not my problem. Whether or not he goes into the women's changing room is every woman's problem. He should not be allowed to.

My view is that increasing the acceptance that men can and do wear dresses increases the confidence to refute the dangerous claim that a man is woman because he is wearing "women's" clothes. People have become scared to refer to a "man in a dress" because of the fear of being accused of hate by 'misgendering'.

LosingTheWill2022 · Today 09:18

^PlatypusRock · Today 06:05
The reason I don’t like it (biggest tom
boy ever) is because yet again a man is taking over a space for women.^

Whilst I can understand your viewpoint @PlatypusRock, I am not comfortable with including clothing to define a "space for women". I accept that is not what you are arguing and that your issue is with the role of the model, but I think it is an inevitable consequence which has the potential to undermine a gender critical stance.

IMO you have put that point across well Losing, expressed it in a pleasant and reasonable way.

I personally don’t think many men will ever want to wear dresses though, or not in the same way that women want to wear trousers. The functions of men and women’s clothes are so different.

I don’t believe exchanging clothes will get rid of stereotypes of masculinity and femininity either . If James Bond wore a silk slip it would be to exaggerate masculinity by contrast.

You could iron out all visible outward differences in children and some teens by dressing them the same way but it wouldn’t last.

Masculinity still symbolises strength, freedom, ability to move and act. So Starmer or Sunak wanting to wear a dress. is not going to happen as a ‘GC’ preference. For them to wear a dress and high heels would not make much sense anyway. It is more uncomfortable and restrictive than what they wear.

In my opinion it would make more sense for Liz Truss or Suella say to wear a warm, comfortable, grey, man’s suit. Think what trouble it would save. It is odd that if they did so they would be unpopular. But maybe they, and the public, see looking ‘feminine’ as natural and expected. I believe it may well be part of human nature to express a difference through clothes..

Androgynous looking women have been used for ages to model clothes, both men's and women's. I was told years ago that it's because many fashion designers are/ were gay makes and they like the look. A lot of these runway models don't look like the woman in the street. I've noticed more high street shops like Gap and H&M use models that could be men. But OTOH they also use curvy women, who would never have got a look in a few years ago. So I think it's best to just let them get on with it. They are showing different ethnicities and body types, but at the end of the day it's about how best to flog their clothes.

What proof do you have that the model is a man? Or is it solely based on you think the model has masculine features? Does the retailer state they are using male models for female clothing?

Scrutinizing models features for any signs of masculinity isn't what people should be doing. Are we really judging if someone looks feminine enough to be a woman?

Whilst I can understand your viewpoint @PlatypusRock, I am not comfortable with including clothing to define a "space for women". I accept that is not what you are arguing and that your issue is with the role of the model, but I think it is an inevitable consequence which has the potential to undermine a gender critical stance.

Exactly. Normalise men wearing skirts, dresses, make up etc. a lot of the gender ideology relies on reinforcing stereotypes of which sex is allowed to wear and do what. If we get rid of those stereotypes, then we can also get rid of gender, we then base spaces on services on sex when needed allowing the maintenance of single sex spaces and encouraging peoples free expression

GrumpyPanda · Today 17:34
I agree that in some fashion the ideal model is not a woman with hips and bust but a young man- or at the very least, the ideal is a cross over between the two. So a male model may as well be used for certain fashions.

On another thread someone suggested that it might be a good idea just to let males do the modelling of women’s clothes. It is easier for young men to stay thin, and they are more likely to be tall. It would mean less anorexia for female models.

High fashion has lead to way for androgyny.

The 1920s thin, bustles flappers were thought to be a replacement for the list young men of the trenches. I wonder what this fashion to be trans gender means in our society.

You're making it sound like that type of fashion is an exception, when in fact runway fashion, and certainly most haute couture, is basically designed to accommodate the body shape of teenage boys (and hence actual males are an obvious if somewhat edgy choice to model them.) Methinks you're getting the feminist issues involved in this the wrong way around. Those of us cursed with hips and boobs (and maybe the occasional heavier thigh area) are so far removed from imposing our stereotypical femininity on everybody else. Just finding some actual fucking clothes to wear would be quite enough, thanks very much. (Bonus points if they also happen to have pockets.)

Agreed

Exactly.
Also makes us Twitter Fodder.

i don't want to support a business if they use men to model women's clothing.
Could you explain why not @PlatypusRock ?

I'm all in favour of men and women wearing whatever clothes they like. I can see there might be manufacturing/fitting challenges in making clothes wholly universal but I have no principled objection to men in skirts or dresses anymore than than women in trousers or shorts. The sooner we stop fixating on social and cultural norms for either sex the better in my view.

The gender guessing on here just perpetuates the idea that unless you're stereotypically feminine looking, you aren't female. Women don't need that kind of pressure.

What makes you think the model is a man? Does the company explicitly say they are using men to model women's clothing or is it simply you think a model has masculine features?

Ah. I see it's another 'let's decide if a model is a man or a woman' issue aka lets judge models features and looks to see if they are feminine enough.

Eeeek.

I keep hearing that term, and I still don't know what it means. Sounds all cool and revolutionary though I suppose.

Grooming the next league of antifa?

If OP has deliberately posted here on purpose, presumably she wants to check that Mango is still a woman-friendly company, i.e. it doesn't have mixed-sexed changing rooms and hasn't posted something stupid and insulting to women on social media.

Here is the latest boycott thread, OP. I don't think Mango are on it.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4504911-is-there-a-list-of-companies-we-can-boycott-over-their-twaw-stance