Non binary/transgender teacher

To be clear from the outset: I’m not for one minute suggesting that the mere fact of being trans is a safeguarding concern in its own right. This is on a par with NAMALT, and not all Muslims are terrorist kind of argument. People – the majority of people – already know this.

But it’s vital to keep appropriate boundaries between teacher and student. Fail in that duty and you’re giving carte blanche to groomers, to situations arising like that of Jeremy Forrest and his idiotic SM supporters saying: ‘but they just fell in lurrrrrve …..’ Educational establishments have a duty of care and this means imposing a series of lines that should not be crossed. I don’t permit my students to follow me on my personal SM until after they’ve graduated. I don’t socialize with them – not unless it’s something organized for them by the department – unlike back in the day with my own lecturers when we’d chew the fat about a lecture topic over a pint in the pub over the road. Those times have changed.

The issue is not with the transitioning of any member of staff. It’s the breakdown of those very porous boundaries which could represent a safety risk across the board. Over-familiarity is a potential risk. If there’s no policy of first-name address, this form of address should be used by no one. As for trans women parading about in inappropriate, revealing clothes as mentioned upthread, of course that’s out of line. The same dress rules apply to all staff, and frankly, I’d see this (not the trans status in itself) as a huge red flag.

I'm not quite sure what it is about 'same rules for everyone' that's so frequently seen as transphobic. If you're not trying to push at boundaries set for the benefit of the greater number, or attempting to police others' behaviour/encroach upon their spaces, expect young children to validate grown adults, then none of this needs to be a problem.

I very much still struggle to understand the concept of non binary. To me it's completely ludicrous, you are either a man or women.

From what I can gather, people who claim to be non-binary fall into one of 3 categories:

1. The (probably few) people who genuinely believe they are neither of the male nor female sex
2. People who for some reason think that because (like most people!) they don't consistently conform to one set of sex-based stereotypes or the other, that means they are a whole new category of human.
3. People who want to feel different and special rather than normal and boring.

I very much still struggle to understand the concept of non binary. To me it's completely ludicrous, you are either a man or women. Simple.

My friend has a transgender non binary teacher at her child's school, he's a man transitioning and he wears short skirts and a shirt to work. I find it, quite frankly wrong! That should not be encouraged around young children as they are very easily influenced to think that is acceptable. If women wore that to school, I'd be horrified let alone a man! And when I saw short, I mean above the knees short. But it's acceptable because he's non binary/trans gender? Baffles me. I do not care what people wear in their spare time, but please tell me I'm not the only one who finds it unacceptable?

They have to call him they/them and her poor child does not understand the concept of it.

Regarding the teacher, I would email the school and find out.

That's not how Section 28 worked (speaking as a lesbian teacher working in schools at the time). Some colleagues were out and many not. Some students knew (like the 6th former working in a gay bar who greeted me with "Hello Miss" one evening) and some didn't.

It was a time of massive social change since the decriminalisation of sex between men over 21 in 1982 and lesbian gay rights were very much on the agenda. We had openly gay MPs and while homophobia was rife, so was sexism, racism, ageism etc - just like today really.

Not defending that nasty piece of legislation but accuracy is important.

Tbh that’s unlikely to be the reason kids knew little to nothing about the lives of school staff, unless there were loads of schools overwhelmingly staffed by gay teachers.

Which seems unlikely.

Nope. My English teacher was a lesbian and history teacher was gay. And that just off the top of my head.

I do think there is an issue with preferred pronouns as a teacher. It is compelling children to affirm that you are a woman if you are a man, or a they if you are non binary. This should be up to a child’s belief system and should not be compelled from a teacher. It is telling them that biology is not binary, when in fact many people including myself believe that it is, and that is OK.

I think it is fine for a teacher to dress as a woman, and say that they like to dress as a woman. Honestly I think it should be normal if men want to wear a skirt as it is to have long hair. But no comment or affirmations! It is not up to children in your class to affirm your wish to be a they or a woman and this includes pronouns.

Talked to a couple of teacher friends who reckon this was well out of order, so I think I will go in and have a chat with the form tutor just to clarify a few things.

You were lucky, one of my pupils called me grandad. Poor kid was embarrassed when they realised. It's about reassuring them and making sure they are ok.

I have no issue using preferred pronouns, nor do D.C. but in this case it seems like a massive over-reaction to a slip up that I would make myself half the time, and grandstanding over it too.
a couple of other kids I know who were accused of also misgendering I happen to know REALLy well and there’s no way they were taking the piss. One of them is gay themselves.

When I was a child there were adverts on tv warning children not to believe men who said they wanted to show them puppies or that they were picking them up because their mum was ill. Now we’ve got nutcase parents and educational institutions colluding with this idea that when a adult says something patently untrue, the child must go along with it because that is ‘kind’ and ‘tolerant’ and ‘respectful’.

It’s gaslighting children to behave in way contrary to the evidence of their own eyes and instincts.

Luckily this isn’t a regular teacher for DC, but I’m not sure if it was a sub, a TA, support staff or a subject teacher although D.C. said the kids were chatting at break times and
some knew them.
Seems like they had a Shiite day as they ended up being too afraid to speak up then the teacher lost the rag with them for not participating properly.

Thanks. I think I will. It’s a great school, and very liberal, lots of LGBTQ+ teachers and support for kids etc. but this really pissed me off. D.C. was a mix of angry, confused and upset at being made to report to the tutor. Tutor apparently was lovely, and believed it was a mistake but said we -parents- would be informed that DC had been sent out of class for behavioural issues.
I haven’t heard anything but this is std procedure for the school although neither of our DC have ever been sent to the office for anything before - it’s an escalation as there’s various steps before being thrown out of class including being issued with same day detention.

Arabella's right Basketball. Parents are going to have to intervene when nonsense like this happens. School rules are meant to be easily understood, clear and easy to follow. Punishing a child for accurately sexing an adult male who wishes to be known by a nick name? when the protocol is Miss, Mrs, Mr etc is unfair.
The school operates for the benefit of children, their learning and development, not for self involved adults to use children as self validation tools.
Complain until the school takes responsibility for managing the situation effectively. .

I'd put in a complaint, Basketball. That's not on. I've worked in schools, no sensible adult cares if they get called the wrong name now and again.

Could have written this. My DC came home from school upset and confused being sent out of class for accidentally calling a non-binary/ poss trans, D.C. isn’t sure ‘sir’ instead of an an abbrev of a first name ( possibly, again D.C. isn’t sure)
totally accidental as DC said the teacher does have a beard and DC was struggling with using ‘ros’ instead as all other teachers are miss/ms/sir. It was the first time being taught by this teacher.
apparently the teacher accused several of the class of misgendering. Transphobia, and abusing their ‘privilege’ and at one point racism even though the teacher appears to be white.
we’re a LGBTQ family with many gay/bi/trans friends so there was no way it was deliberate and DC ( year 7) says it was just very confusing and the teacher was being horrible to lots of them.
Normally we keep well out of it and trust the school but this seemed all a bit OTT and because they were doing a a
special whole school business enterprise the class weee stuck with this teacher all day across activities.

The teacher is a male and has not asked to be referred to as a female so why the female pronouns?

"I quoted someone’s full post verbatim to disagree with it."

The poster you quoted said we should teach tolerance. Which you then changed to "tolerance of performative narcissim", when you don't know the individual involved and are not in any position to assert she is a narcissist simply because she is trans. Even the op admitted she knows nothing about the teacher's background.

That's simply you demonstrating your prejudice. By your own admission you disagreed with the poster talking about tolerance. I agree with that poster and disagree with you.

Trans people have existed just as long as everyone else

Have they though?
There is plenty of documented evidence of LBG being around for a very long time.
Is there the same amount of (or any) non biased evidence for Trans?

This is the group that has form for rewriting history.

I quoted someone’s full post verbatim to disagree with it.

You cut my post off mid sentence to suit your agenda.

If you can’t tell the difference between those things or think they’re the same you shouldn’t really be discussing things on a forum for grown-ups

It's very much not the norm for pupils to use first names for teachers. It's part of the boundaries that are in place. I did wonder, does this teacher take an arty subject where it might be more normal to want to be unconventional - say, art or drama, rather than maths?

Trans people have existed just as long as everyone else. It’s a good thing this boy is becoming aware of it.

Rather missing the point. Presumably if there have been other trans teachers at the school, when they were introduced as a teacher they have been introduced with their name? It would be unusual, IMO, for every member of staff to be Ms/Mr and one gets their first name.

The issue here is that a child is afraid to ask for fear of making a mistake. There is no blame attached here - children are afraid of making mistakes. All it takes is a note from the school admin (or whoever does this) to say this teacher is Ms X.