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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pronouns at nursery

138 replies

PronounsBaby · 21/10/2022 13:22

I'll start by saying I don't really have a problem with people stating their pronouns if they feel it necessary and is important to them (although I will do an internal eye roll and move on).

I personally don't like stating them as I don't think it should matter (if you are referring to me when I'm not there I think I'd prefer to be referred to by name). Ultimately I won't be putting them on my emails at work as I don't want to feel like I have to state " this is a woman talking! "

Anyway, my 8 mo is just about to start nursery. They have a board of staff members pictures and names along with pronouns. All sexed based except one male looking they/them. Fine.

They have given me a form to fill in about home life and have asked on there, what the family pronouns are and I'm not sure really what to put.

I guess 'they' as there are multiple members of the family but I know this isn't what they mean.

Maybe 'N/A' or 'none'? Maybe put 'none (sex based)'? Leave blank?

I don't want to start off on the wrong foot here but equally I don't really want to play along with the nonsense...

Has anyone navigated this?
I know it's not a big deal in the long run but I'm going to be leaving my PFB with them and don't want to worry about her/us being treated differently? Probably over thinking it...

OP posts:
KittenKong · 22/10/2022 23:16

Actually this could be fun. Half my family come from a country where the language doesn’t have this. So I’m used to being called she, or sometimes he. Sometimes both in the same conversation.

KittenKong · 22/10/2022 23:14

Onehappymam · 21/10/2022 13:35

What a load of bollocks!

Are they honestly going to accommodate the whim of every single kid and every member of each individual family?

You could of course change it on a daily basis.

RoobarbandCustud · 22/10/2022 17:27

The pronouns we use in our family are I, my, you, yours, they, them their, our, her, hers, him, his.

TheClogLady · 22/10/2022 10:18

PronounsBaby · 21/10/2022 18:45

@Brefugee@FunnyTalks very good point. What is so harmful about misgendering?

@TheClogLady dear lord.... I could have some fun with it...😇

I would. At least for the pets.

if the staff ever question you about it you can say ‘I’d never thought about personal pronouns until I was filling out your form and inspired by you I did some research, discovered that pronouns do not mean gender any more and I realised that chi/chis/chisself suits our chihuahua far more than she/her, thank you so much for introducing me to the concept’

AlisonDonut · 22/10/2022 09:30

Haudyourwheesht · 22/10/2022 08:24

Single female = she
Single male = he
Multiples of either sex = they.

I'd love to put this and then say if they need any other help on basic grammar then I'd have to question their ability to run a nursery.

Haudyourwheesht · 22/10/2022 08:24

Single female = she
Single male = he
Multiples of either sex = they.

SudocremOnEverything · 22/10/2022 07:46

Outwiththenorm · 22/10/2022 07:24

What toddler uses other people’s pronouns anyway? And most nursery workers imitate this in my experience: ‘Look Daddy’s coming to pick you up. Can you see daddy? Daddy’s over there’ etc

As someone upthread said, many toddler’s favourite pronoun is ‘my’ (as in ‘my do it’) or they just use names.

The thing that strikes me about the family pronouns thing is that the families who do use different pronouns will be chomping at the bit to tell them all about this. They can just assume everyone else is using standard English and most of them may be a bit perplexed by the question.

There are also, as always, real inclusion issues in this crap. It makes things much harder for parents who speak little English or struggle with literacy to access early education and support their child. Using simple standard English and not muddying the waters with pronoun use (or similar linguistic gymnastics) is actually the most inclusive thing you can do.

Outwiththenorm · 22/10/2022 07:24

What toddler uses other people’s pronouns anyway? And most nursery workers imitate this in my experience: ‘Look Daddy’s coming to pick you up. Can you see daddy? Daddy’s over there’ etc

KhaleesiOfChaos · 22/10/2022 06:49

Soontobe60 · 21/10/2022 13:45

I would expect nursery staff to refer to me as ‘baby Soontobe’s mum’ if I wasn’t there!
E.g. -
key worker “ Baby Soontobe is poorly, she needs some Calpol. I will phone her mum up to confirm this”
Nursery manager “OK, but make sure Baby Soontobe’s mum signs to record book when she comes to pick her up.”

But you've used she and her pronouns in your example. What if (shock horror) those weren't your preferred pronouns?!

Think how upsetting if would be to find out nursery had mis-pronouned you in your absence ConfusedGrin

PronounsBaby · 22/10/2022 06:05

@Needanewnameagain yes I suspect you are correct in their intentions. It's to give a home from home experience and to refer to family members as the child would.

I don't have safeguarding concerns but do wonder how easily staff would be able to reject typical stereotyping if worried about pronouns. I guess it all comes down to not thinking about it too much, and it will be ok.... 🙄

OP posts:
SeemsABitHarsh · 22/10/2022 01:33

SimpleName83 · 21/10/2022 23:43

"We use the normal sex-based English pronouns. Why is this even a question?"

Or in whatever language in which you exist. All languages distinguish between women and men.

However I would ask that the "he/him" not be left alone with my child, if I had a small child.

I'm told Hungarian, Finnish and Estonian all use the same language for men and women. Those aren't one of the three languages I use, so could be a load of rubbish

WalkthisWayUK · 22/10/2022 01:18

I’d change nurseries. This shows that they might be more concerned with gender ideology than child safeguarding.

SeemsABitHarsh · 22/10/2022 00:55

TheClogLady · 21/10/2022 17:18

neopronouns-list.tumblr.com/neopronouns-list

here’s just the ‘C’s

C
Ca/Cak/Cake/Cakes/Cakeself
Ca/Cana/Canal/Canals/Canalself
Ca/Cas/Can/Cans/Casself
Ca/Cat/Cats/Cats/Catself
Cae/Caer/Caers/Caers/Caerself
Ca/Care/Cares/Cares/Careself
Cake/Cake/Cakes/Cakeself
Canal/Canal/Canals/Canals/Canalself
Care/Care/Cares/Cares/Careself
Cat/Cat/Cats/Cats/Catself
Cel/Celest/Celestial/Celestials/Celestialself
Celestial/Celestial/Celestials/Celestials/Celestialself
Cele/Stial/Celestial/Celestials/Celestialself
Cer/Cerise/Cerise/Cerises/Ceriseself
Cha/Char/Charm/Charms/Charmself
Chao/Chao/Chaos/Chaos/Chaoself
Charm/Charm/Charms/Charms/Charmself
Chart/Reuse/Chartreuse/Chartreuses/Chartreuseself
Che/Cher/Cherry/Cherries/Cherryself
Che/Cher/Cherry/Cherrys/Cherryself
Chef/Chef/Chefs/Chefs/Chefself
Cherry/Blossom/Cherries/Blossoms/Blossomself
Cherry/Blossom/Cherrys/Blossoms/Blossomself
Cherry/Blossom/Cherries/Blossoms/Cherryblossomself
Cherry/Blossom/Cherrys/Blossoms/Cherryblossomself
Cherry/Blossom/Cherries/Blossoms/Cherryself
Cherry/Blossom/Cherrys/Blossoms/Cherryself
Cherry/Cherry/Cherries/Cherries/Cherryself
Cherry/Cherry/Cherrys/Cherrys/Cherryself
Che/Sher/Shers/Shers/Sherself
Chicken/Chicken/Chickens/Chickens/Chickenself
Chi/Cken/Chicken/Chickens/Chickenself
Cii/Ciir/Ciir/Ciirs/Ciirself
Cin/Cinna/Cinnas/Cinnas/Cinnaself
Cla/Claw/Claws/Claws/Clawself
Claw/Claw/Claws/Claws/Clawself
Clo/Clover/Clovers/Clovers/Cloverself
Cloud/Cloud/Clouds/Clouds/Cloudself
Co/Co/Cos/Cos/Coself
Co/Code/Codes/Codes/Codeself
Co/Com/Comet/Comets/Cometself
Co/Cow/Cows/Cows/Cowself
Code/Code/Codes/Codes/Codeself
Cola/Cola/Colas/Colas/Colaself
Cook/Cook/Cooks/Cooks/Cookself
Cow/Cow/Cows/Cows/Cowself
Co/Coy/Coys/Coys/Coyself
Cold/Cold/Colds/Colds/Coldself
Comet/Comet/Comets/Comets/Cometself
Cotton/Candy/Candies/Candies/Cottonself
Coy/Coy/Coys/Coys/Coyself
Cream/Soda/Creams/Sodas/Sodaself
Cre/Creek/Creeks/Creeks/Creekself
Creek/Creek/Creeks/Creeks/Creekself
Cry/Cryst/Crystal/Crystals/Crystalself
Cryp/Crypti/Cryptid/Cryptids/Cryptidself
Cryptid/Cryptid/Cryptids/Cryptids/Cryptidself
Crys/Crystal/Crystals/Crystals/Crystalself
Crystal/Crystal/Crystals/Crystals/Crystalself

Lists like that are actually a very old viral joke on tumblr, its a random blogging site getting on for a 15 year old if not older. It's absolutely full of jokes and satire pages. Anyone can blog anything on tumblr - to test this theory I've literally just submitted a random word to the web based form that the blogger provided on your link, to submit a 'new' pronoun, and it's been accepted. That list does not provide a list of 'pronouns' beginning with C, it's a list of random words

Needanewnameagain · 22/10/2022 00:54

It's a bit of a leap to jump to the conclusion that because someone may respect another person's choice of pronoun, or make an effort to refer to someone in the same way the child does, that it means they are denying/fudging anything.

SimpleName83 · 22/10/2022 00:41

Oh, well said! 😄

SeemsABitHarsh · 22/10/2022 00:39

SimpleName83 · 22/10/2022 00:02

OP seems trapped with:

All sexed based except one male looking they/them.

Yes, and it's so easy to tell.

He is male, but seeking pronouns that hide and confuse that fact that he is male.

To hide this from parents of small children.

Will this man also seek to confuse small children, as well as their parents?

It has to be said. The word "grooming" comes to mind, even though this particular individual may seem pure as driven snow.

Seems a bit harsh are we really saying that from a 'male looking' picture with pronouns they/them, we can extrapolate the nursery worker is deliberately attempting to hide their sex, apparently for the purposes of grooming?

SimpleName83 · 22/10/2022 00:39

But why would you or anyone, in a childcare or education setting, seek to deny or fudge sex-based reality?

SimpleName83 · 22/10/2022 00:28

If the man that identifies as "they" wishes to do so in his own time, then crack on and good luck to him.

But when working with small children in a nursery - then no, he does not get to push and entrench his own political views. Whatever they may be.

Needanewnameagain · 22/10/2022 00:26

I work in a nursery, and my feeling is that this question is in the paperwork to show inclusion /respect for family members' preference rather than implying some sort of gender-based agenda in their daily care of the children. Not that it is comparable, but similar to how with a 2-dad family in our setting, we correctly refer to one as "dad" and the other is "daddy" , just as the children do at home. Or if a grandparent is picking up a child, we use their preferred term be it granny/gran/nan/nana/nonnie/whatever

SimpleName83 · 22/10/2022 00:09

PiffleWiffleWoozle · 22/10/2022 00:07

I would want to know if they are following sex based safeguarding procedures or if calling yourself ‘they’ magically removes the .

Yes, this.

PiffleWiffleWoozle · 22/10/2022 00:07

I would want to know if they are following sex based safeguarding procedures or if calling yourself ‘they’ magically removes the .

SimpleName83 · 22/10/2022 00:02

OP seems trapped with:

All sexed based except one male looking they/them.

Yes, and it's so easy to tell.

He is male, but seeking pronouns that hide and confuse that fact that he is male.

To hide this from parents of small children.

Will this man also seek to confuse small children, as well as their parents?

It has to be said. The word "grooming" comes to mind, even though this particular individual may seem pure as driven snow.

SimpleName83 · 21/10/2022 23:49

OP has stated, no choice of nursery provision.

Some areas don't. It's alright to swop nurseries in an urban/suburban area and you have choice, But in some more rural or less populated areas, you really don't have much or any choice.

OP is correct to question this.

PinkButtercups · 21/10/2022 23:43

I wouldn't send my DS there.

Just leave it blank.

SimpleName83 · 21/10/2022 23:43

"We use the normal sex-based English pronouns. Why is this even a question?"

Or in whatever language in which you exist. All languages distinguish between women and men.

However I would ask that the "he/him" not be left alone with my child, if I had a small child.

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