Another surrogacy nightmare

Wow lots of people have contributed to the baby buying process.

However, are those of you against surrogacy for gay couples also against surrogacy for infertile straight couples?

Yes, I’m against all human trafficking including surrogacy

Basically literacy skills are a qualification when you are purchasing a baby and need to dissect the information given to you by the clinic.

His surprise at multiples being delivered early and thinking he had ‘bought them’ already demonstrates that he just wanted to acquire these babies for the lowest price possible and paid no mind. He’s now relying on charity for their fucking formula.

thick as mince. he has no business bringing those little girls home.

Yes I had the same thought.

I can't stop thinking about this. My fear (above and beyond the impact on the babies in these horrific cases we keep hearing about) is that activists will use these cases as a wedge to get pro-surrogacy laws passed.

@ancientgran .. that would be Irish... or if you were speaking Irish.. it would be Gaeilge.. which is a Gaelic language but it is called Irish.

Up until fairly recently lesbians had to adopt their own biological children in England (possibly elsewhere in the UK too) in order to have their female partners listed as a second parent.

I’m not suggesting that it’s a good thing for a bio parent to have to adopt their own child but weird situations occur when law is a hodgepodge.

I definitely think it’s a good thing to have rules to stop foreign born dads up and awaying with newborns but the Kenyan law is presumably really aimed at preventing father abduction, and gay dads using surrogates are just covered by the same legal safety net.

According to the linked article, heterosexual couples do the adoption route (so that both mum and dad have legal parental responsibility, not just dad)

This is not a route open to gay couples due to Kenya’s legal position on homosexuality so bio dad has to have a DNA test and then go to court for a parenting order that relinquishes the birth mums rights.

The court can refuse to sign off on adoptions and parenting orders. Nothing is guaranteed due to Kenya having no specific surrogacy laws, just a hodgepodge of other laws that are being adapted or loopholed

Both court processes are long and expensive.

It’s all in the linked article. Bio dad can’t just pretend to have conceived with surrogate mum in a normal way and take the baby because they don’t let Kenyan born babies leave with foreign, non resident dads who aren’t married to mum under Kenya’s prevention of trafficking laws (presumably they have a good reason to organise things this way? An unmarried foreign dad without legal parental responsibility wouldn’t be allowed to leave the UK with a newborn either, especially when the baby doesn’t have a passport).

Besides, all the hospital staff are well aware that mum was a surrogate, so dad can’t start denying it now, that would be fraudulent. And acting fraudulently would be sufficient reason to take the babies into social services care.

And yes, the babies will be entitled to Irish citizenship but dad can’t apply for Irish passports until the DNA test and birth certificate paperwork is complete. This all costs money.

He's clearly got dyslexia or similar. Let's not let that distract us from the abhorrent behaviour of these men

“I’m in my own war, I know the situation is different to the one in Ukraine but I’d rather be in a bombshell in Ukraine with my kids in my arms than have them 5,000 miles away from me, not knowing if they’re safe or not.”"

I have no words 🙄

Did @PurplRainDancer know that when making stupid remarks about his spelling? As if being able to spell is the qualification for being a parent.

@ancientgran his first language is not Irish.

That is really unfair. Do people normally have to have a spelling test before they can become a parent? If you believe surrogacy is wrong why do you need to bring the argument down to his spelling? Maybe his first language is Irish Gaelic. How's your spelling in Irish Gaelic?

I can understand the baby is Kenyan (although presumably also Irish through the father) so rules about one parent taking them out of the country, it is specifically the adoption I don't understand. Why would he have to adopt his babies, if he is the biological father of course.

When did we stop understanding that life isn't fair. Everyone cannot have children. It's upsetting, it can cause huge anger, stressed, emotional issues but it's just the way it is.

A child is not an entitlement, it is a privilege.

I think commercial surrogacy is wrong on all forms. I'm not as convinced that it is as bad a concept where it is a willing family member or friend but even then that's without it's complications.

Even if you don't think surrogacy is utterly abhorrent, anyone who feels sorry for a man (or a couple of men) who put a woman and babies' lives at massive risk by implanting multiple embryos in some kind of sick BOGOF deal, needs to look at themselves.

He can’t even spell ‘surrogacy’ says it all.

The silence around the moral issues of trafficking babies via surrogacy is what allows this couple to be so ignorant and naive as to believe they could pay to rent the womb of a woman with few options, on the far side if the world, and buy three babies.

The complacency of people like NicLondon and her friends makes them complicit in this terrible tragedy.

Somewhere there is a woman who was badly paid to risk her life to carry triplets she can't keep.
There are motherless triplets in hospital with no one responsible for them.
There are two sad, broke men who believed they could have babies, because that's what the media told them.

If you are not arguing against surrogacy, then you are complicit in all these tragedies.

I'm against all surrogacy, no matter what sexual orientation the person wanting to buy a baby maybe. Surrogacy should be banned.

Surrogacy is an abhorrent practice regardless of:

• the sexuality of the people who are [gag] commissioning the creation of a human being
• how lovely those doing the commissioning might be
• how great they'll be as parents
• how desperately they want to hire a woman to gestate and birth a baby for them
• whether they will pay the birth mother generously
• or if said birth mother a) loves being pregnant b) wants to do it c) is happy to hand over her newborn baby

This is human trafficking however much some people might want to believe it's a Good Thing.

No one has the right to have children. No one should have the right to buy a baby. No one should be able to induce a female friend or family member to participate in a process that will involve the creation of a human life for the express purpose of giving that child away soon after birth. Just. No.

This again is another illustration of the emotions described by Tracee Ellis Ross.

The innocuous makes space for the horrific and women have to live with the effects of both and everything in between.

When someone helps themselves to a woman's body, it not only triggers discomfort and distress, but the unspoken experiences of our mothers' lives, our sisters' lives and generations of women before us.

Women, I encourage you to acknowledge your fury. Give it language. Your fury is not something to be afraid of. It holds lifetimes of wisdom. Let it breathe. Listen.

We are told it is wrong to speak what we feel because we are denying gay men the right to be parents and women who want to be surrogates for their friend the right to bestow that gift, willingly offered...

The innocuous gives way to the horriffic .. and three babies born to an oppressed women in Kenya to parents who do not have the funds to pay for their medical care is horriffic and if you don't think so @NicLondon1 ... then I despair for the future of women even more that I did this morning.

According to the article that route doesn’t automatically allow the biological father to take the baby out of the country.

The mother’s rights (and presumably the baby’s Kenyan nationality through mum) have to first be relinquished through the courts.

Otherwise it’s officially baby trafficking (not just morally baby trafficking).

I'm against all surrogacy. It's absolutely nothing to do with this being a gay couple and everything to do with the fact that they have rented a woman and bought children. I believe that this goes against human dignity and should not be allowed in any circumstances.

I am against surrogacy in all possible cases. There is NEVER a justifiable reason to buy and sell a human being, whether they are already born or in utero.
I know many gay couples and single people who are parents despite not being able to give birth. Adoption is how it happens- surrogacy is the most selfish thing someone can do to become a parent.

No one should be ‘making a living’ from having a baby for someone else. It’s immoral. Shame on your ‘friends’.