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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hospital refuses to operate after woman requests all-female care

917 replies

Imnobody4 · 19/10/2022 17:06

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11316141/Hospital-bans-sex-assault-victim-op-female-care-request.html

I feel quite sick at this.

She was stunned then to receive an email from the hospital's chief executive Maxine Estop Green telling her the operation was off.

She told her the hospital 'did not share her beliefs' and she should make alternative arrangements for her surgery.

The message added the hospital was committed to protecting staff from what it described as 'unacceptable distress'.

Emma urged them to reconsider, adding in a further message she thought they had misunderstood her requests, which she said were entirely within the law.

The hospital said it would offer a private room but would NOT facilitate her requests for single-sex care after her operation.

It also mentioned her comment about pronouns and said it had a responsibility to protect staff from 'discrimination and harassment'.

OP posts:
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/10/2022 18:09

It's all there in black-and-white. They actually wrote that down.

Indeed. It's astonishing that they thought that was a sensible thing to do.

Runningintolife · 19/10/2022 18:09

I would not think that any hospital could arrange a single sex ward team for any patient - a chaperone for intimate procedures yes, but your surgeon, named nurse, or HCA might be male or female across various shifts or procedures. She can ask, and they can respond. Not sure why this is made as a point about the trans person, although if they are treating her like a bigot for her beliefs I can see that she (and indeed the trans member of staff) might feel targeted. Iffy this one.
We can't provide a health service that accommodates every request, just try to compromise with the patient in the best achievable way. Single sex wards which I support don't mean single sex staff.

Datun · 19/10/2022 18:08

ScaryFaces · 19/10/2022 18:06

Presumably because they don't? But that wasn't the reason given for cancelling her procedure. Her procedure was cancelled because they couldn't provide what she demanded - a private en suite room with an all-female staff.

They may well be saying that now, but in the correspondence they say they're cancelling it because they can't adhere to her request as they don't share her beliefs.

It's all there in black-and-white. They actually wrote that down.

ScaryFaces · 19/10/2022 18:06

Datun · 19/10/2022 18:04

So why did they tell her they don't share her values?

Presumably because they don't? But that wasn't the reason given for cancelling her procedure. Her procedure was cancelled because they couldn't provide what she demanded - a private en suite room with an all-female staff.

wednesdaynamesep · 19/10/2022 18:06

... and why did they say that they had to protect their staff from harassment...?

Datun · 19/10/2022 18:05

"We do not share your beliefs and we will not adhere to your request, and therefore we have decided to cancel your surgery."

Pretty unequivocal.

Datun · 19/10/2022 18:04

ScaryFaces · 19/10/2022 18:01

If you actually read the exchange of letters, it puts the situation in a rather different light. The woman demanded something the hospital were simply not able to provide to her (a fully private with ensuite ICU bed, which the hospital simply doesn't have available). Her life was not at risk. She sounds paranoid, obsessed and insane. There's no evidence the member of staff she believed was transgender actually was. No hospital can guarantee you will only interact with female staff. Sometimes this is logistically impossible - if, for example the only specialist in a certain area on that day is male. The hospital cancelled her procedure because it couldn't meet her multiple demands.

So why did they tell her they don't share her values?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/10/2022 18:04

She sounds paranoid, obsessed and insane.

Lovely way to speak about a sexual assault survivor who experienced a man walking in on her when she was undergoing an intimate procedure. You people really are the kind ones!

NecessaryScene · 19/10/2022 18:04

I don’t believe for a minute that these TWs suffer “unacceptable distress” if someone uses the wrong pronouns or doesn’t allow them to care for a woman who has asked for female nurses. It’s furious male rage we see, and threats, not distress.

If it caused them that much distress, you'd think they wouldn't spend so much effort trying to seek out female-only or female-focused spaces where women might object to them.

You might almost think they were trying to provoke reactions.

WarriorN · 19/10/2022 18:03

This is absolutely disgusting

That poor woman.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 19/10/2022 18:02

Blimey even I didn’t think we’d get “it’s all the unreasonable woman’s fault for wanting actual women to provide the care” so quickly

Datun · 19/10/2022 18:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Yes.

And there will be a difference between requesting a female, and requesting a female that specifically excludes transwomen.

The hospital specifically said they didn't share her values and she needed to make an alternative arrangement.

i'm sure lots of places might accommodate a female only request, but not if you are quite explicit about what that actually means.

Magenta82 · 19/10/2022 18:02

daisychain01 · 19/10/2022 17:57

I rarely venture into these parts but I couldn't help but read this thread.

Im sure there's truth in it but honestly, why use the Daily Mail as your source of knowledge, they'll always blow something like this out of proportion.

Today I attended a hospital to have a scan due to finding a lump in my groin. When I was shown into the room where the (male) registrar was going to do the ultrasound scan, there was a group of (male) interns who were clearly going to join and watch the procedure. I stated to the (female) medic that I wasn't comfortable at all, given the nature of where the scan was, and without further ado, all interns were ushered out and I was left with the female medic and the male registrar performing the scan. They couldn't have been more responsive apologetic and understanding about my discomfort and totally got my point.

This is the real world. Hospitals up and down the country are doing fantastic work, conducting medical procedures and preserving the dignity of patients, yet it takes the Daily Mail to blow up 1 case and make it headlines. I feel strongly there needs to be balance and fairness.

But that's the point of news.
It isn't news when normal things happen the way they are supposed to.
It is news when something like this happens.

FictionalCharacter · 19/10/2022 18:01

I don’t believe for a minute that these TWs suffer “unacceptable distress” if someone uses the wrong pronouns or doesn’t allow them to care for a woman who has asked for female nurses. It’s furious male rage we see, and threats, not distress. So people like that CEO pander to them, instead of telling them to just get on with looking after the next patient.

ScaryFaces · 19/10/2022 18:01

Clymene · 19/10/2022 17:46

There is a long thread on Twitter with screenshots of all the correspondence: threadreaderapp.com/thread/1582761032686051329.html

It's actually really frightened me that women can be denied urgent medical care if we ask for all female post op care.

If you actually read the exchange of letters, it puts the situation in a rather different light. The woman demanded something the hospital were simply not able to provide to her (a fully private with ensuite ICU bed, which the hospital simply doesn't have available). Her life was not at risk. She sounds paranoid, obsessed and insane. There's no evidence the member of staff she believed was transgender actually was. No hospital can guarantee you will only interact with female staff. Sometimes this is logistically impossible - if, for example the only specialist in a certain area on that day is male. The hospital cancelled her procedure because it couldn't meet her multiple demands.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/10/2022 18:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Datun · 19/10/2022 18:00

daisychain01 · 19/10/2022 17:57

I rarely venture into these parts but I couldn't help but read this thread.

Im sure there's truth in it but honestly, why use the Daily Mail as your source of knowledge, they'll always blow something like this out of proportion.

Today I attended a hospital to have a scan due to finding a lump in my groin. When I was shown into the room where the (male) registrar was going to do the ultrasound scan, there was a group of (male) interns who were clearly going to join and watch the procedure. I stated to the (female) medic that I wasn't comfortable at all, given the nature of where the scan was, and without further ado, all interns were ushered out and I was left with the female medic and the male registrar performing the scan. They couldn't have been more responsive apologetic and understanding about my discomfort and totally got my point.

This is the real world. Hospitals up and down the country are doing fantastic work, conducting medical procedures and preserving the dignity of patients, yet it takes the Daily Mail to blow up 1 case and make it headlines. I feel strongly there needs to be balance and fairness.

Have you read the Twitter thread linked above? All the correspondence is on it. It's worse than the Daily Mail is reporting.

daisychain01 · 19/10/2022 17:57

Helleofabore · 19/10/2022 17:32

So much for 'you can always reject any health care professional's services'.

Doesn't seem to work in reality, does it?

I rarely venture into these parts but I couldn't help but read this thread.

Im sure there's truth in it but honestly, why use the Daily Mail as your source of knowledge, they'll always blow something like this out of proportion.

Today I attended a hospital to have a scan due to finding a lump in my groin. When I was shown into the room where the (male) registrar was going to do the ultrasound scan, there was a group of (male) interns who were clearly going to join and watch the procedure. I stated to the (female) medic that I wasn't comfortable at all, given the nature of where the scan was, and without further ado, all interns were ushered out and I was left with the female medic and the male registrar performing the scan. They couldn't have been more responsive apologetic and understanding about my discomfort and totally got my point.

This is the real world. Hospitals up and down the country are doing fantastic work, conducting medical procedures and preserving the dignity of patients, yet it takes the Daily Mail to blow up 1 case and make it headlines. I feel strongly there needs to be balance and fairness.

CaronPoivre · 19/10/2022 17:57

We know the Princess Grace is a very expensive private hospital and not part of the NHS, don't we?

Datun · 19/10/2022 17:56

OldCrone · 19/10/2022 17:55

It also mentioned her comment about pronouns and said it had a responsibility to protect staff from 'discrimination and harassment'.

Don't they also have a responsibility to protect patients from discrimination and harassment?

To hospitals exist to treat patients or to validate staff with gender identities?

Well that's them banged to rights then. Not using preferred pronouns is part of the gender critical belief. They cannot discriminate against her on that basis.

Magenta82 · 19/10/2022 17:56

Clymene · 19/10/2022 17:46

There is a long thread on Twitter with screenshots of all the correspondence: threadreaderapp.com/thread/1582761032686051329.html

It's actually really frightened me that women can be denied urgent medical care if we ask for all female post op care.

It's even worse than I thought!

Datun · 19/10/2022 17:55

Jesus, I hope she sues them for indirect discrimination.

Of course they can provide a bloody woman.

i'd be willing to bet that they are too scared to put it in writing, though. They are being held to ransom.

This has to stop.

I can remember Tony Blair exclaiming is it really beyond wit of this government and health administrators to provide single six wards?

The point being that he, and everybody else in the bloody country, found it not just acceptable, but desirable, to have them.

Not shit scared of even discussing the prospect.

it's ridiculous. It's a completely normal request, that almost all women would want to make.

Why do they think chaperones were introduced???

Nasty, cowardly misogynists. I hope she wipes the floor with them.

OldCrone · 19/10/2022 17:55

It also mentioned her comment about pronouns and said it had a responsibility to protect staff from 'discrimination and harassment'.

Don't they also have a responsibility to protect patients from discrimination and harassment?

To hospitals exist to treat patients or to validate staff with gender identities?

Helleofabore · 19/10/2022 17:54

Yes, I would love to see this in AIBU. I daresay it would open many eyes.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/10/2022 17:52

I hope it does go to Chat/AIBU, despite the inevitable twattery.

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