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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hospital refuses to operate after woman requests all-female care

917 replies

Imnobody4 · 19/10/2022 17:06

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11316141/Hospital-bans-sex-assault-victim-op-female-care-request.html

I feel quite sick at this.

She was stunned then to receive an email from the hospital's chief executive Maxine Estop Green telling her the operation was off.

She told her the hospital 'did not share her beliefs' and she should make alternative arrangements for her surgery.

The message added the hospital was committed to protecting staff from what it described as 'unacceptable distress'.

Emma urged them to reconsider, adding in a further message she thought they had misunderstood her requests, which she said were entirely within the law.

The hospital said it would offer a private room but would NOT facilitate her requests for single-sex care after her operation.

It also mentioned her comment about pronouns and said it had a responsibility to protect staff from 'discrimination and harassment'.

OP posts:
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14
NoNever · 19/10/2022 20:46

daisychain01 · 19/10/2022 17:57

I rarely venture into these parts but I couldn't help but read this thread.

Im sure there's truth in it but honestly, why use the Daily Mail as your source of knowledge, they'll always blow something like this out of proportion.

Today I attended a hospital to have a scan due to finding a lump in my groin. When I was shown into the room where the (male) registrar was going to do the ultrasound scan, there was a group of (male) interns who were clearly going to join and watch the procedure. I stated to the (female) medic that I wasn't comfortable at all, given the nature of where the scan was, and without further ado, all interns were ushered out and I was left with the female medic and the male registrar performing the scan. They couldn't have been more responsive apologetic and understanding about my discomfort and totally got my point.

This is the real world. Hospitals up and down the country are doing fantastic work, conducting medical procedures and preserving the dignity of patients, yet it takes the Daily Mail to blow up 1 case and make it headlines. I feel strongly there needs to be balance and fairness.

Amazing that your issue isn’t that her procedure is cancelled and she is now so ill that she can’t have any treatment, but that she spoke the the Daily Mail about it.

It’s always “we would listen and care that you’re being terribly mistreated but you’re too loud, we don’t like your tone, you told the wrong person, blah blah blah.

Waitwhat23 · 19/10/2022 20:44

TheClogLady · 19/10/2022 20:42

It’s very different.

Have you not read the Equality Act 2010?

Namely - www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

TheClogLady · 19/10/2022 20:42

landOFconfusion · 19/10/2022 20:40

This is no different to patients specifying that they don’t want medical staff of a particular ethnicity or religion treating them.

Which is - incidentally - a regrettably common request in healthcare settings.

It’s very different.

Have you not read the Equality Act 2010?

landOFconfusion · 19/10/2022 20:40

This is no different to patients specifying that they don’t want medical staff of a particular ethnicity or religion treating them.

Which is - incidentally - a regrettably common request in healthcare settings.

Faffertea · 19/10/2022 20:28

The fact this was at a private hospital really underlines that this was about what she said, not what was practical. Private hospitals exist to make money. Cancelling the procedure at that late stage will have costs them thousands of pounds.

If the issue was about ITU provision or staffing they would have phoned her and explained what they could and could not offer e.g private room and en suite after ITU but most ITUs are mixed sex by virtue of being ITUs. They also could have said they would aim for female nursing staff but in the event of emergency care, unforeseen staff absence etc they may not be able to guarantee it.
That would have been the sensible rational thing to do.

The response was so disproportionate it really is telling.

BlessedKali · 19/10/2022 20:22

Wow.

Hospital refuses to operate after woman  requests all-female care
ifIwerenotanandroid · 19/10/2022 20:21

ScaryFaces · 19/10/2022 18:11

I'm a sexual assault survivor. That doesn't put someone above criticism. Or entitle them to have their every demand met even when it's logistically impossible to do so.

Do you remember the woman who kicked off on twitter not so long ago because she believed there was a trans woman on the female ward she was staying on? Huge outrage ensued which later had to backpedal as the woman admitted that in fact she'd been mistaken and the other woman wasn't trans at all? I'm not sure it can be taken as given that this woman was correct in assuming the person who entered their room was transgender. Maybe that's what the hospital meant - they want to protect their female staff from the indignity of being accused of having penises when they're just trying to do their jobs.

I believe the other case to which you refer has a different ending & was much more serious than you have described. Your version appears to be both wrong & out of date. I'm not getting at you; I simply don't want anyone reading this to get the wrong idea.

BlessedKali · 19/10/2022 20:21

That is so effed up. After reading the letters back and forth to the hospital, the patient is clearly in the right. The hospital did a whole manner of unprofessional & heartless actions.

Ultimately it is not the point of what the hospital could or could not offer, what they did not do was treat the patient with respect. They could have responded to her requests for female staff with explanations why it would be impossible, or they could have tried to meet her in the middle, etc etc.

Instead they cancelled her extremely important operation putting her at risk of ill health, cancelled the surgeons, wasted all the resources of the operating theatre, only 3 days before it was due. Because they don't share her 'BELIEFS'.

Utter madness. To protect a man's ego. To uphold a narcissistic delusion.

I hope she sues, she will surely win.

red4321 · 19/10/2022 20:21

The female chaperone suggestion sounds a sensible compromise. I'm guessing providing only female staff post surgery is a challenge.

When I had recent surgery at Princess Grace, each floor seemed to have their own specialist nursing and medical staff so I'm not sure they could just reshuffle them between wards that easily.

The split of female to male medical staff was about 60:40 so perhaps they were concerned about resourcing the ward with only female nurses for an extended stay? Who presumably then would have to cover the other patients on that floor or you'd be back to having male nurses around on the ward.

Having read the various emails, i think the lady has a fair point about having a conversation to find an acceptable solution rather than cancelling the surgery. That seems harsh. But, equally, the hospital also has a duty to ensure it's safely resourced for all patients staying at that time.

Rightsraptor · 19/10/2022 20:21

@Clymene - it seems people still don't understand what screening is.

When I was foolish enough to be on Twitter I seemed to have endless fights with people who conflated even emergency procedures with screening. Where I live, only 51% of eligible women attend for screening mammograms. This will drop even further if males are allowed to do it.

I digress and apologies for the derail. This case is awful and needs to get to court.

Grumpybutfunny · 19/10/2022 20:20

It a private hospital who has decided to cancel their contract with a patient not the NHS refusing surgery. I have to say I was on her side about female in intimate care as it is normal for males to have a chaperone for intimate procedures on females, but as soon as she said a male doctor was okay I lost all respect for her point of view.

A male nurse providing care is no different to a male doctor it isn't the 1900s 🤬. If I was the CEO I would also be worried from a liability point of view, what if she need intervention from say the acute response team at 3am who on the closest team happen to male nurse APs. They don't have MBBS after their name so would they be okay, what if the male physicians associate or pharmacist has to provide care again no MBBS.

What if the ward has an outbreak of an infectious disease and she has to be moved out of the private room as it is needed for isolation and into a mixed bay in ICU.

That's without even really thinking about it, given time no doubt I could come up with a multitude of other possible problems.

I also wonder if the "male" she is on about in a wig happens to be a biological female who has now been insulted by the patient.

FannyCann · 19/10/2022 20:18

The hospital's behaviour is appalling but ironically this woman may have been better served in the NHS. I assume that a private hospital is able to pick and choose patients in a way that the NHS cannot.

Whilst I absolutely support her desire for same sex accommodation and intimate care, in this instance I can see it could be tricky (leave aside the lipsticked male who stuck his head round the door during her appointment). Intensive care units tend not to have much (if any) single room provision - obviously I've no idea of the lay out of ICU at the Princess Grace. The ICU at my hospital has four single rooms which are generally used for isolation/infection control and would be unlikely to be available to accommodate personal preference however compelling the request.
I'd have thought accommodation on the main wards would be all single room en suite at a smart London private hospital.

As regards staffing, although nursing remains predominantly female, there tend to be more male nurses on ICU so although one would expect it to be possible to arrange staffing to accommodate a request for female only, it might not be possible over a prolonged stay.

None of which excuses the decision of the hospital or the way they handled the matter.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/10/2022 20:16

As I clarified in my previous post, I'm talking about routine screening for women who don't have any concerns but who are invited for screening because of their age

im fairly positive that our breast screening place says you will only be seen by a female…I’m sure it was in the leaflet

Datun · 19/10/2022 20:12

I would never, ever consent to a mammogram with a male radiographer

Nor me.

TheClogLady · 19/10/2022 20:11

Moonatics · 19/10/2022 19:56

Great, that's me not going for bloody breast screening. Thanks for letting me know.

My breast clinic is all-female.
Perhaps I’m lucky as it’s big city teaching hospital with a special unit solely for BC care. I’ve been going yearly since I was 35 as part of a research project.

it’s every proudly all-female in the day clinic (I’ve not experienced the ward) but even the professor running the study I’m in is female.

They see male breast cancer patients outside of normal clinic hours.

Don’t let the above poster put you off - make enquiries as to what’s available locally when the screening letter arrives. I expect it’s more likely they can offer you a guaranteed female radiographer than not.

I would never, ever consent to a mammogram with a male radiographer (and personally had no issue whatsoever with male OB consultants for pregnancy, so am not personally someone who insists on female only in all situations).

Coyoacan · 19/10/2022 20:10

ScaryFaces

There are very few women in the world who are not sexual assault survivor, but the term "sexual assault" covers a huge range of violence and even the same type of sexual assault produces different traumas in different people.

I think your reaction is utterly, utterly heartless

Redebs · 19/10/2022 20:08

In this case, it seems the patient was ok with male doctors, but requested that she be nursed by female nurses only.
I think this is reasonable. When I had my first child, I requested female midwives due to preference and faith. Shortly after giving birth, I was asked by my midwife to bare my perineum to a very flustered teenaged man who was doing a pre-nursing course. When he shyly averted his eyes, she insisted on pointing out the details of the bruising I had accumulated the day before. I can only think that she was either trying to embarass him, or me.
The main issue in this case though, is that the patient was confronted not just by a male member of staff, but by one with gender dysphoria who was asserting himself in the role of a woman.
The 'uncanny valley' experience of coming across men presenting as women is disconcerting in any situation to some degree, but in this case was particularly disturbing, I'm sure.
There does seem to be a trend for gender dysphoric men to insist on deliberately placing themselves in roles that disadvantage or discomfort women (eg 'Heather' Peto) It can only be intentional.

TheClogLady · 19/10/2022 20:02

Exactly.

A reasonable compromise would be ‘we got guarantee that all your care will be by an exclusively female team but we can provide a female nurse/chaperone so you will never be alone with a male’

It’s a private hospital so they could presumably supply a 24/7 rota of female chaperones (eg HCA) for the entire inpatient stay, hired in via an agency, with the additional costs agreed in advance and passed on to the patient (plus admin fee, no doubt!)

Clymene · 19/10/2022 20:01

Milkand2sugarsplease · 19/10/2022 19:57

@Clymene are they hell all staffed my females.
I had a male do my screening and then a male surgeon do my breast surgery. If they've got the quals and a half decent bedside manner I couldn't give a monkeys whether they have breasts or a penis.
I've also got a good friend who works on rotation in the breast clinic and works with a fair few men

As I clarified in my previous post, I'm talking about routine screening for women who don't have any concerns but who are invited for screening because of their age.

I wish I hadn't mentioned it now.

SelfPortraitWithFoxInSmokingJacket · 19/10/2022 20:01

This is so fucking obscene I'm too angry to say anything but that if there is a crowdfunder to sue them I will be champing at the bit to contribute.

DewinDwl · 19/10/2022 20:00

BorisisaLune · 19/10/2022 19:32

Get real, there are 110k vacancies in the NHS, some filled with bank staff & 7m people waiting for an operation - what if everyone (male and female) said "i want same sex post op care"

When i had a nasty fall, i didn't say "that male paramedic can f off i want a female one, so i'll wait" or after the operation "no, i 'll risk infection and wait for 3 days for the dressing to be changed by a female"

Sorry but if you want that, go private.

LOL

Milkand2sugarsplease · 19/10/2022 19:57

@Clymene are they hell all staffed my females.
I had a male do my screening and then a male surgeon do my breast surgery. If they've got the quals and a half decent bedside manner I couldn't give a monkeys whether they have breasts or a penis.
I've also got a good friend who works on rotation in the breast clinic and works with a fair few men

Moonatics · 19/10/2022 19:56

MacroTwigg · 19/10/2022 18:39

This isn't true of every trust. I work in imaging and rotate through breast screening. Our consultants are mostly male. They do the consultations, as well as being available for certain scans and aspirations/procedures etc. We, or course, always have female sonographers and chaperones available as well but not that many female consultants. We've noticed that not many women specialise in Radiology so may be why there isn't as many female consultants in the pool.

Great, that's me not going for bloody breast screening. Thanks for letting me know.

OdeToOceans · 19/10/2022 19:55

I absolutely knew this would be the Princess Grace without even opening the article. It's well known with woke folk.

Waitwhat23 · 19/10/2022 19:52

travellingfamily · 19/10/2022 19:47

My reading of it is:

Woman wants single sex care. She writes to the hospital along the lines ‘may I request single sex care and by the way I don’t think transwomen are women so single sex means single sex please’

Hospital writes back ‘we do not share your values so we are cancelling the surgery’.

This isn’t really about what is possible (and I come down on the fact that it may well be impossible to guarantee single sex care - what if someone is sick and an opposite sex person has to cover?) - if the hospital had tried to engage better then it might have come down to that.

It is that they didn’t even try - they thought her values were wrong, and that was that.

100%

If they'd said 'we've considered your request and given staffing etc etc, it just won't be possible for us to offer that but here is (x,y,z) that we can offer', it wouldn't have been ideal, but understandable.

That wasn't the reason given. Despite some posters insisting that we have somehow misread the actual correspondence which have been screenshot onto a Twitter thread from the hospital.

It's ideological. Couple that with the ongoing complaint and it's even more unsettling.

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