Hospital refuses to operate after woman requests all-female care

And odious is exactly the right word wait

And this is going to be one very expensive, very public, very damaging bit of silliness on their part

good

I find the attitude that women should just accept what's offered and be grateful truly chilling.

The odious IW's take on all this.

This. I have been reading this thread, wondering if some posters are literal children, whose only knowledge of healthcare comes from an Early Learning Centre dress-up kit!

And the comment about values was about her comments about not agreeing to use preferred pronouns, amongst other things. Presumably the hospital has staff who might be offended by this.

Yes. Straightforward discrimination.

I read that they couldn't comply because of the demand for only male staff (apart from the doctor surgeon who patient was ok with).

All the links above give you the full picture. She was refused on grounds of political belief: specifically that when saying she wanted only female staff nursing care due to management of her PTSD being a crucial part of her recovery, she was not prepared to make an exception for male staff who identified as genders other than men.

And the comment about values was about her comments about not agreeing to use preferred pronouns, amongst other things. Presumably the hospital has staff who might be offended by this.

Hence the whole point: you cannot discriminate against someone on grounds of their belief. Hospital staff cannot withhold care from people they view as heretics, and medical staff are there to care for patients and expected to know about things like faith, culture, trauma, PTSD, and put the needs and wellbeing of their patient first. Not first demand that the patient meets all their needs or they will flounce.

Legally she has them on toast. A bit of kindness, religious tolerance and inclusivity could have managed this without any issues for anyone involved. However instead they chose this response. And this is going to be one very expensive, very public, very damaging bit of silliness on their part, that does TQ+ people no favours at all in the press.

Offended? So not grown ups then? They really should choose another career then.

Presumably the hospital has staff who might be offended by this

So what? It is illegal to cancel her surgery for this reason.

I had a series of surgeries at a different HCA hospital in London a few years ago. As a patient, you are alone in a closed room with the nurse doing your intimate care after surgery. It is a much more vulnerable situation than the theatre with a whole team looking on.

I read that they couldn't comply because of the demand for only male staff (apart from the doctor surgeon who patient was ok with).
And the comment about values was about her comments about not agreeing to use preferred pronouns, amongst other things. Presumably the hospital has staff who might be offended by this.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'm saying that this is how I understand it.

There was a team of surgeons, it wasn't just one man. But the intimate care that she would have to have after her operation is what the nurses would be doing.

@Datun no I am talking about her letter to the hospital. She said that the male doctor would be ok to work with her. I'm not referring to the person popping their head around the door.
I was wondering why this male is trustworthy but not anyone else.

Have some of you had as little experience of hospital as your posts suggest?

A patient hardly sees their surgeon. A patient sees the nursing staff a lot more often (relatively - nowhere near as often as it should be but my point still pertains). Last time I was in hospital (orthopaedic patient) I was fine with a male surgeon who I meet in clinic and then briefly in theatres just before my op, for which I was unconscious. We know sexual assault can happen in theatre - there was the oral rape(s) by the anaesthetist in Brazil recently in a theatre full of people - but less likely there than in other settings.

Then I was back on the ward. Paralysed from the waist down. That was the point at which I needed female carers. When I had unknowingly wet the bed in the early hours and had to be cleaned, rolled over so the sheet under me could be changed. I was very vulnerable and that is why a female nurse is so important. Can't all you 'no difference between male doctors and nurses' see what nonsense you talk?

My paralysis lasted around 12 hours. I know my vulnerability was very short-lived and was nothing compared to what some go through. We have to fight. We have no choice.

I never saw the surgeon again.

I also wonder why the woman in question considered that the male doctor is more trustworthy than say a male nurse. She was ok with the doctor.

She has said why. A man in a wig and make up barged in when she was having some intimate pre-op procedures done and made eye contact with her. She felt as though it was connected to her gender critical views that she had made clear previously.

It wasn't a surgeon, or any of the surgical team. It was quite possibly someone who could be assigned to her intimate care post surgery.

The point is, that she could have asked for the moon on a stick, and they could have replied with well the moon is a little far away, and we're all out of sticks. But that's not what happened and it's irrelevant what she actually asked for, at this point.

Because the reason they didn't address her request was not because they were all out of sticks and the moon's a tad out of reach, it's because they didn't share her values. And cancelled the operation on that basis. And then compounded the whole thing, by actually writing that down in an email to her.

It's not about compromise, it's not about trying to accede a request with limited resources. It's about the reason why they said they would not countenance her request. It was because, and, again, they actually wrote this down, they didn't share her values.

But, as an aside, a sexual assault survivor asking for females to look after her intimate care subsequent to her surgery, is a perfectly normal request. Of course, people understand that it's not always possible to comply with it. But as a request, it's totally normal.

What's not normal is saying no on the basis that she wouldn't validate a man's feelings.

@Clymene from what I've read it is permissable for male doctors under certain circumstances ( such as emergency or if they are the only person able to treat) for a female Muslim to be treated by a male.
I'm also not sure if that extends to nurses & aftercare, my understanding is that it's particularly considered in more
intimate surgery not necessarily aftercare. I might be wrong though.

I also wonder why the woman in question considered that the male doctor is more trustworthy than say a male nurse. She was ok with the doctor.

Ah, quite possibly. New to this. Reading the correspondence in the right order makes it clear their decision to cancel was because she didn’t ‘share their values’. When she started to point out that this is discriminatory (how did they not know) they started qualifying that decision by introducing the idea of it also being an issue of resource management. The first email is damning. it can’t be qualified.

As someone else has pointed out here, they earn much cash from serving the needs of wealthy women from the ME who make similar requests for religious reasons. No resource issues there. I think they could be found in breach of medical ethical standards and will await the news of legal interventions on this woman’s behalf.

100% correct. I realised I was finally free of my exH when he tried "the stare" on me at our son's wedding and it had no effect on me

I didn't read it that way. I thought they were saying that it would be impossible to meet demands due to request for all female staff. They were unable to agree this point, that's how I read it.

I didn't say anything about 'a team of hundreds ' I think you're mixing with another poster.
If the hospital responded in the way they did, there must be more to it. I'm sure we'll find out as things unfold.

Those of us who have suffered domestic abuse know about The Stare. I'm guessing the man who came in used The Stare. The Stare means you are marked, you are in trouble but you don't know when or where you will receive your punishment. The Stare is used to intimidate and scare. Sometimes The Stare just mean keep walking on those eggshells. This man did it on purpose. I hope the investigation is made public or is leaked.

It might have been worth meeting the CEO as the CEO requested in their correspondence to try to solve the issues. No-one really wants to go to court or independent bodies without trying everything to resolve the issues.

The issue was clearly stated by the hospital - that the hospital has a set of beliefs that must match a patient's in order to operate on them. This is discrimination. How do you propose the patient could have resolved this? Change her beliefs? She evidently has no power over this ludicrous hospital policy. And particularly not hours before vital surgery.

‘Have read the correspondence fully. She wanted all female care that she makes very clear. She says only with prior agreement will she want a male in her room. This is going to be pretty much impossible in such a busy environment’ - you first claimed it was the whole team of hundreds. She’s asking for female aftercare. It’s usually one nurse per person in ICU per shift so easily manageable. It’s a private hospital which ask customers to pay for what they need. This is easily managed. And she only asked for that after a trans person walked into her room during an examination and kicked eyes with her. No one in hospitals accidentally walks in during private exams. It was clearly meant to intimidate. Her response is entirely reasonable.

@Strangeways19

She says she wants all female care after the operation. She is fully aware her surgeon is male.

The hospital at that point could have said it was impossible in ICU but she would only be there for x hours and then she would get her single sex care after that.

As multiple other posters - including me - have pointed out, this hospital performs a lot of surgery on devout Muslim women who have exactly the same requirements - to receive no intimate care from men.

This hospital's success is partly down to their ability to deliver single sex services to women from religious minorities.

They refused to deliver the same to this patient because they didn't respect her reasons for asking for them. As is clearly outlined in the correspondence which you have presumably also read.